civilians are not civilians , I’ve heard this one before
As far as I’m concerned, Ukraine can carpet bomb Moscow until there are no more Russians.
If Russia doesn’t like that, they can take their illegal occupying army and get the fuck out of Ukraine’s territory.
Ukraine trying really hard to be the Israel of eastern Europe.
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Can you elaborate how please?
Are they saying every ordinary Russian is inside of Putin 😳
In every Putin there’s an ordinary Russian Citizen.
chapo dot chat is a website
Nooooooooo… not the wholesome europeans.
Yes, especially the holesum Ewros!
That’s some Bibi shit.
yikes
Why ukraine had an issue with 7 of october then?
Because Hamas attacked Israeli military bases and Israeli armed terrorists are innocent civilians.
The framing here does not say “they are military targets”. It strikes out the negative to assert the positive, i.e., it is in discourse with a depoliticizing narrative that “I have nothing to do with Putin’s war, don’t touch my Wildberries”. It really is at the same level as saying that ordinary Americans and ordinary Israelis are not innocent of the Iran war, the Gaza genocide etc. It is saying to the population: you can’t wash your hands of this.
Now, that said, this is a flat nationalistic way of saying this, and it’s a war propaganda poster.
Edit, yup, in the original Instagram post, that’s exactly the framing, not “kill’em all”:
Russia is slowly being welcomed back. Western celebrities are performing in Russia again. Russian athletes are gradually returning to international competitions. Russians are being welcomed back into cultural and public spaces - all while Russia’s war against Ukraine continues. Behind this normalization lies a familiar argument: don’t punish ordinary Russians for Putin’s war. They have nothing to do with it. But is this really just Putin’s war? Let’s debunk one of the most persistent - and convenient - myths about Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
So why put an AK-47 in the “Ordinary Russians”? And they post that after weeks of killing Russian civilians this is pure bullshit.
I’m not here to defend Ukrainian war crimes. As to the ak47, I wrote:
Now, that said, this is a flat nationalistic way of saying this, and it’s a war propaganda poster.
So, it is depicting Russian citizens as combatants, that‘s what you‘re trying to say?
That’s still pretty disgusting, literally arguing that Russians should be expelled from culture and public spaces. It may not be “kill them all” but it is essentially “ethnically cleanse them”
…what do you think Russia has been trying to do to Ukraine?
None of the things mentioned, but it wouldn’t matter if they did; ethnic cleansing as a form of collective punishment is still monstrous you soulless ghoul.
Prevent a large nation on their border from joining a political-military bloc (NATO) that exists explicitly to oppose their interests.
The blame ultimately comes down to the Western meddlers installing a fervently anti-Russian government in the Euromaidan coup.
Russians and Ukrainians are brother peoples, barely distinct from one another. If the Ukrainians wish to have an independent state, there is no inherent problem with that - but just as a Canada that is anti-U.S. would be a geopolitically impossible and untenable destabilizing force, a Ukraine that is anti-Russian is the same.
explicitly opposes their interests… like invading neighboring nations. so they invaded before Ukraine could join the anti-invasion club.
The “anti invasion club” that has only ever fought offensive wars
Literally reversing victim and offender here. Ukraine spent eight years trying to ethnically cleanse their east, killed 14,000 civillians, and now that Russia has stopped them and is waging a war 10 times safer for civillians than America’s unprovoked full scale invasion on Iraq, now libs wanna call that ethnic cleansing.
Show me the policies, show me the outlawing of culture and language, show me the death squads. I can show you all of those things from the Ukrainian government.
Oh man. Are you really defending the clear aggressor in an obviously unjust war?
Surely the entire world is wrong about this one and we’re being mean to poor, innocent Russia who clearly did nothing wrong.
Surely the entire world is wrong about this one
The “entire world” being the western powers of Amerika and friends.
Are you really defending the clear aggressor in an obviously unjust war?
Man it would be so cool to be a dipshit who thinks you can describe wars like a barfight between two people, as if thats how countries work. Too bad it’s not one of those just wars that Ukraine participates in, like the US war on Iran
But to reiterate, no, I’m against the Holocaust participant-worshipping nazi regime that attempted genocide on a subset of it’s own people before being stopped by Russia.
Anyway,
Show me the policies, show me the outlawing of culture and language, show me the death squads. I can show you all of those things from the Ukrainian government.
Show me any of this or shut up.
… you definitely know what words means
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I don’t know how they could put it clearer?
do you not see the “ordinary russian” holding an assault rifle? Lmao
There’s certain implications to having the matryoshka doll labeled ordinary Russians holding a rifle wouldn’t you say?
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You are being extremely generous with your interpretation of an image painting all Russian civilians as armed and responsible Russia’s for military actions, while Ukraine is currently under scrutiny for killing civilians inside of Russia.
You do not have to defend everything Ukraine does.
I am sure the media that you consume would absolutely show war crimes of Ukraine, as they would neo-nazis, forced conscription and other things that would make the western population oppose endless military help. Because the media one consumes has no bias, other than that of THE ENEMY!!!
/s
I think it’s a bit of a stretch
I disagree. In large text calling civilians responsible for the war and then depicting them as combatants has very clear implications.
Russia is the only one firing rockets and drones at hospitals and schools
Not really true unfortunately, there’s the starobilsk dormitory and the Novoaidar district hospital strikes off the top of my head not to mind the shelling of civilians in the Donbas since 2014. It’s not really a one side or the other in this war when it comes to crimes (not that it has ever been such is the horror of war).
Have you confused Russia with the US/Israel?
The graphic put a gun in their hands; that is clearly painting them as a fair target.
I do not believe all Israelis or USians are responsible for the crimes of their ruling class and I know for a fact that all USians don’t support/vote for their officials. Israel also has dissidents.
Shut the fuck up.
I do not believe all Israelis
Maybe not all but 82% being for ethnic cleansing is an insane number.
Yeah it’s really bad. But, even if their dissidents are a marginal population, conflating them with the genuine fascists would be to discourage their dissidents. Any comrade in the US is in a similar dynamic.
Of course that note just veers into a struggle-session of it’s own regarding thrid-worldism; I have work tomorrow and won’t be participating. Good luck to the combatants.
Shut the fuck up. Ah, yes, the good ol’ lemmy, where discussion is always welcome
“So much for the tolerant left”
I have decided not to extend the benefit of the doubt to the government who’s ethnic cleansing campaign against Russian people kicked off this war
Can you expand on this a bit
Absolutely, I generally do not trust or support people who do things like this:
Or do you mean the war thing?
Are we supposed to pretend Russia doesn’t have the same neonazi problem Ukraine has?
neonazi problem Ukraine has?
The neonazi problem that is the government of Ukraine and is stuffing Ukranian men into vans to be sent to the meat grinder?
Because Russia is not doing that.
I was following the existence of these groups for a while back in the day. Their crimes does not make an excuse to annex a country. Maybe everyone’s got that COVID brain now but if you can focus a bit you night remember that Russia keeps annexing independent countries whether or not there’s nationalist boogiemen present.
But I’m sure foreign intervention is cool to you types, after all the US does it so it’s fine right?
Their crimes does not make an excuse to annex a country.
Nobody is trying to annex Ukraine dude, not before the war and definitely not now. I don’t know where you guys get the idea that you can just Say Shit and have it count in an argument, but that is not the case. This war began in part because the Russian Federation would not abide the presence on their border of a fascist puppet government of a nuclear-armed enemy coalition that has helped pillage it’s economy and kill millions of it’s people within living memory.
Do you know what would happen if Russia annexed Ukraine? That’s right, their border would now be with Poland, a member of the nuclear-armed enemy coalition that etc etc. Except now their border would be a salient vulnerable from three sides and they would also be tied down by administering the basket case that western Ukraine has become. I am begging you people to stop thinking that life is a movie and Russians are the unthinking orc bad guys, and actually consider the strategic situation from their position. They don’t fucking want Ukraine. Not even NATO fucking wants Ukraine. Ukraine is a spent munition.
Russia keeps annexing independent countries
Source: my fevered dreams
And again, this is something NATO and the US do constantly, nonstop, while accusing their enemies of doing. It’s an incredibly predictable pattern. They did in in Ukraine dude. They’ve been doing it since after WW2. Invade/coup a country on the other side od the world. Install fascists to administer it for you. Declare it an independent state. Instigate further conflict, claim locals started it. We must defend South Korea. We must defend South Vietnam. We must defend Ukraine. Bam, you are now “defending the sovereignty” of a people whose government you picked for them, and whose struggling bodies you have thrown into conscription vans for a war you started from thousands of miles away and are making bank off of. It is so very depressing that after most of a century, this trick still works on liberals, and it works because they want to believe it.
But I’m sure foreign intervention is cool to you types, after all the US does it so it’s fine right?
-You in 1944, smugly opposing D-Day
I don’t know where you guys get the idea that you can just Say Shit and have it count in an argument
Because they’re nazis. They literally don’t give a shit. It’s the enemy. You can just say whatever you want about the enemy. If someone argues with you then you’ve rooted out a spy.
I don’t think Russians are Orcs. Quite a bit of them have tried not to go to war. Many of them keep dying for mysterious reasons. I think their leader-for-life is an ex-kgb oligarch tool from an oligarchic era and he murders any other political possibilities that try to happen in his country. It’s just weird as fuck that people defend his actions but not really when you look at the IP addresses of war pigs on twitter
Not going to give you sources because you are a lost cause doing state shit for a state. People who know, they know. But you’re just here to lie, invent fake arguments to dunk on like a schizo, and embody convictions in front of the right people. Hope they saw it and thought you were very brave shilling for a government.
Edit: did not see this was an .ml com. That’s on me, I came to your turf. I’m not sorry for what I said but I know you all have your hustle and so I shouldn’t have said it here
This is the Hitler in the DNA of liberalism rearing his head in defense. You have nothing to back up the childish good guy/bad guy understanding of the world that’s all the empire equipped you with. So instead you put on both the peaked military cap and the lab coat and just start smugly declaring that people who disagree with your dumbass ideas are both enemy spies and insane. I brought analysis, you brought “You’re Russian.” Say I’m Chinese and gay for Putin next you fuckin loser.
Trying to understand how and why states do what they do and coming to different conclusions, surely is not simping for some of these leaders. You get that, right?
Not going to give you sources because you are a lost cause doing state shit for a state. People who know, they know. But you’re just here to lie, invent fake arguments to dunk on like a schizo, and embody convictions in front of the right people. Hope they saw it and thought you were very brave shilling for a government.
I saw it, I think your dissonance makes you cop out. People who know, they know — lol.
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Hey cool, you can tell this is AI slop because of “ARE!!
Not”What?
Tbh this may be slop but its not AI, the small details all look correct and yes in theory they could have used an extremely advanced model but lets be honest they wouldn’t spend that much for something like this
