• nxdefiant@startrek.website
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    1 year ago

    Anarchy has a well defined meaning.

    This is my biggest problem with your phrasing, and I know that it just boils down to semantics - and that feels like absurd reductionism, is that “anarchisticly organized” is essentially a matter/antimatter reaction of a phrase that leaves the reader with nothing of substance.

    Now for something truly controversial:

    Capitalism is the purest form of anarchy.

    • irmoz@reddthat.com
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      1 year ago

      “anarchisticly organized” is essentially a matter/antimatter reaction of a phrase

      Mate… i have to wonder if you’ve read anything at all. In your life.

      Probably the most common thing said among anarchists is “organise, organise!!” Anarchists are all about people organising.

      capitalism is the purest form of anarchy

      Controversial doesn’t mean stupid. Capitalism is antithetical to anarchy. It inevitably and irresistibly trends toward monopoly, no matter how you slice it.

      It also cannot exist without a coercive state apparatus, and in absence of one, will make itself the state, essentially reinventing feudalism.

      • nxdefiant@startrek.website
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        1 year ago

        Not to gloss over anything you said, but I’m going to address the core of it.

        Capitalism is an emergent property of human behavior. It didn’t fall out of the sky, we invented, of our own will, and to the peril of many. How can any collection of humans, however organized they may be, prevent whatever their ideal state of anarchy is from changing into capitalism over time? I feel that it’s a very important question for anarchy because if any society wishes to have its members enjoy max freedom, the very first question that should be asked is “are we defining a cap on freedoms, or are we not? If we do, should we enforce it, and if so, how?”, the subtext being how to execute the answers without immediately establishing a state. (This you stated, essentially, and we agree)

        And keep in mind that what I may or may not know doesn’t impact the question at all. The question stands on its own. How does anarchy survive the human condition, and humanity’s predispositions?

        • irmoz@reddthat.com
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          1 year ago

          Capitalism is an emergent property of human behavior

          This sounds deep at first, but upon thinking for a second is a truism on the lines of “that’s just the way the world works”. Everything humans have done as a society is an emergent property of human behaviour. Capitalism, mercantilism, fascism, communism, anarchism, feudalism, slave society, empire… and so on. These are all also emergent properties of human behaviour.

          It didn’t fall out of the sky, we invented, of our own will, and to the peril of many.

          This also is just a truism. Yes, of course it was invented. It’s a social system. These aren’t inherent. I didn’t claim otherwise.

          How can any collection of humans, however organized they may be, prevent whatever their ideal state of anarchy is from changing into capitalism over time?

          …By being organised and connected and educated. A society that has managed to erode the state and revolutionise society to live without hierarchy would be fundamentally different to the one now. To extrapolate behaviour in that society based on any behaviour you see in this one is fraught and must undergo further analysis based on the material conditions. But, based on anarchist, communist etc theory I’ve been exposed to thus far, such a society would not even by tempted by capitalism because - what is the point? We’ve moved past that. It’s in our history books and we look at it the same way that today we see feudalism.

          I feel that it’s a very important question for anarchy because if any society wishes to have its members enjoy max freedom, the very first question that should be asked is “are we defining a cap on freedoms, or are we not? If we do, should we enforce it, and if so, how?”

          This seems rather loaded. What do you mean by a “cap on freedoms”? Right after mentioning capitalism, it seems you’re equating capitalism, or maybe the concept of private property, with freedom.

          the subtext being how to execute the answers without immediately establishing a state. (This you stated, essentially, and we agree)

          There is no need for a state. People can organise together and make decisions together, then disperse to execute those decisions.

          And keep in mind that what I may or may not know doesn’t impact the question at all.

          Not sure what this means or how to address it.

          How does anarchy survive the human condition, and humanity’s predispositions?

          Define for me the human condition, and what you mean by humanity’s “predispositions”. These are not solid concepts.

    • Gelcube69@reddthat.com
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      1 year ago

      “anarchy has a well defined meaning” it does, and if you had read anything about it before posting this you would know what it is.

        • Gelcube69@reddthat.com
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          1 year ago

          I’ve been reading anarchist literature for nearly 20 years. Please enlightened me on where you got this well established definition that you definitely didn’t just make up on a whim.

              • cristo@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Bruh that is such a poor definition of anarchy lmao. Its been changed and molded to fit a utopian idealist view. In reality, anarchy is nothing like what the wikipedia article says, to say otherwise is willful ignorance

                • Gelcube69@reddthat.com
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                  1 year ago

                  It’s a nearly 200 year old political philosophy, what do you mean changed and molded? It’s almost as old as the United States.

                  It’s the first definition that comes up if you search on any search engine. You’ll find it in hard copies of encyclopedias if you really want to. It’s quite literally THE established definition.