You’re deflecting the real issue here. The issue isn’t whether that’s factual or just your personal feels. The issue is that you’re saying that was the definitive cause of its failure:
it failed because making a good game was pushed aside in favor of making a game with a message".
And what I was saying was, well, no, it wasn’t the definitive cause. Far from it. There’s a lot of reasons for the game’s failure.
Claiming messaging wasn’t in the “top 100” reasons for failure is just hand-waving. You provide no evidence for that, and even if it’s not the primary reason, that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a factor.
I fail to see how you refute my point by saying that. I never said it wasn’t a factor, I said it was insignificant compared to bigger problems.
You know, I didn’t list the reasons because I thought they would be obvious to anyone who’s actually following what’s going on. Buuuut how about the oversaturation of the AAA game publishing space? (People have giant backlogs of great games to play, and there’s no end to this stuff.) Rising game prices? (Big game publishers are getting pretty greedy.) Increasing standards of quality from consumers? (Can’t release a meh game these days, if people are paying $70+ for games, they have to be beyond excellent.)
Most importantly: people actually want games that were made by studios that give a damn about the end product. Bioware is just EA’s puppet, they make product chunks. In my opinion, the biggest reason DAV failed commercially because it was a game nobody was asking for, made by a developer that’s a shadow of its former self and everyone knows that. People had scepticism, and rightfully so.
See? I didn’t even get into what’s in the game. That’s what I meant when I said the Message isn’t even in the top 100 problems.
Finally, comparing this to the “historical accuracy” argument is a bad-faith deflection.
No, perhaps I was being unclear. What I meant by that is that it’s in the same category as “historical accuracy” whinging. It’s a fictional setting, so arguing that it has to match some real world facts and logic is utterly pointless.
Dragon Age isn’t real history, but it does have established lore and internal consistency. When a game introduces elements that contradict its own worldbuilding, it breaks immersion. That’s the issue.
So how exactly did it contradict the worldbuilding? Was it specifically established in DA lore that all nb/trans people will use polymorph magic? I’m genuinely curious here.
Or did you mean that this particular logic doesn’t make sense to you personally? That’s not “lore”. That’s not a worldbuilding issue. That’s projecting your own assumptions.
Besides: Even if it was specifically earlier established in DA lore that all nb/trans characters will just use polymorph stuff, who cares? The writers are well within their rights to retcon their stuff. Worldbuilding is not dogma.
You’re shifting the goalposts. My argument wasn’t that messaging was the sole reason for failure, but that it was a major factor—one that contributed to the game feeling like a product with priorities misaligned from what players actually wanted. Saying there were “many reasons” doesn’t refute that.
Your claim that messaging wasn’t even in the “top 100” is still unsupported. Listing industry-wide problems like oversaturation and rising prices is fine, but none of that explains why The Veilguard failed specifically. Plenty of games thrive under these conditions. The difference? They connect with their audience. DAV didn’t.
As for lore consistency—yes, Dragon Age has established magic that lets people change their gender at will. If that exists, then the idea of medical transition (and scars from it) doesn’t naturally fit within the world. That’s not a personal assumption; it’s a logical question based on the rules the setting has already established. If a game contradicts its own internal logic without explanation, that’s bad writing.
And no, “retcons” don’t excuse anything. A writer can change their worldbuilding, but doing so in a way that breaks immersion, alienates players, or makes the setting feel incoherent is bad storytelling. Just because you can rewrite lore doesn’t mean you should—especially if it weakens the internal consistency of the world.
You’re deflecting the real issue here. The issue isn’t whether that’s factual or just your personal feels. The issue is that you’re saying that was the definitive cause of its failure:
And what I was saying was, well, no, it wasn’t the definitive cause. Far from it. There’s a lot of reasons for the game’s failure.
I fail to see how you refute my point by saying that. I never said it wasn’t a factor, I said it was insignificant compared to bigger problems.
You know, I didn’t list the reasons because I thought they would be obvious to anyone who’s actually following what’s going on. Buuuut how about the oversaturation of the AAA game publishing space? (People have giant backlogs of great games to play, and there’s no end to this stuff.) Rising game prices? (Big game publishers are getting pretty greedy.) Increasing standards of quality from consumers? (Can’t release a meh game these days, if people are paying $70+ for games, they have to be beyond excellent.)
Most importantly: people actually want games that were made by studios that give a damn about the end product. Bioware is just EA’s puppet, they make product chunks. In my opinion, the biggest reason DAV failed commercially because it was a game nobody was asking for, made by a developer that’s a shadow of its former self and everyone knows that. People had scepticism, and rightfully so.
See? I didn’t even get into what’s in the game. That’s what I meant when I said the Message isn’t even in the top 100 problems.
No, perhaps I was being unclear. What I meant by that is that it’s in the same category as “historical accuracy” whinging. It’s a fictional setting, so arguing that it has to match some real world facts and logic is utterly pointless.
So how exactly did it contradict the worldbuilding? Was it specifically established in DA lore that all nb/trans people will use polymorph magic? I’m genuinely curious here.
Or did you mean that this particular logic doesn’t make sense to you personally? That’s not “lore”. That’s not a worldbuilding issue. That’s projecting your own assumptions.
Besides: Even if it was specifically earlier established in DA lore that all nb/trans characters will just use polymorph stuff, who cares? The writers are well within their rights to retcon their stuff. Worldbuilding is not dogma.
You’re shifting the goalposts. My argument wasn’t that messaging was the sole reason for failure, but that it was a major factor—one that contributed to the game feeling like a product with priorities misaligned from what players actually wanted. Saying there were “many reasons” doesn’t refute that.
Your claim that messaging wasn’t even in the “top 100” is still unsupported. Listing industry-wide problems like oversaturation and rising prices is fine, but none of that explains why The Veilguard failed specifically. Plenty of games thrive under these conditions. The difference? They connect with their audience. DAV didn’t.
As for lore consistency—yes, Dragon Age has established magic that lets people change their gender at will. If that exists, then the idea of medical transition (and scars from it) doesn’t naturally fit within the world. That’s not a personal assumption; it’s a logical question based on the rules the setting has already established. If a game contradicts its own internal logic without explanation, that’s bad writing.
And no, “retcons” don’t excuse anything. A writer can change their worldbuilding, but doing so in a way that breaks immersion, alienates players, or makes the setting feel incoherent is bad storytelling. Just because you can rewrite lore doesn’t mean you should—especially if it weakens the internal consistency of the world.