You can continue to hang onto some conspiracy-theory-esque logic of “but it doesn’t make sense”, or you can face reality. There are enough hurdles to getting a photo on the internet and then noticed by the wider public that it’s entirely explainable.
Thanks, I hadn’t seen that. What strikes me as odd is that neither side mentions a huge factor in the conflict: China’s investment in the “belt & road” initiative which relies on the old “Silk Road” route which passes through Xinjiang.
The Uighurs did have an independence separatist movement (China isn’t paranoid) and it would disrupt these plans. China aint letting go of its tight grip any time soon.
If you still take seriously anything coming from Adrian Zenz, chairman of the Victims of Communism Memorial Association and rabid Christian conservative, it’s your fault
Would you be more convinced if we moved the goalposts to that old Right Wing nutjob phrase “cultural genocide”?
Throwing people into camps for traditional values, guilt by association or proximity, (from the files, along with goals of sinisation).
And the imposition of modern wage labour, while removing local language and lifestyles.
Or will you at least conced that if those files are real, then there is/was a huge mass detention campaign that bordered upon, if not being one, a crime against humanity?
What part of “the camps are closed” don’t you seem to understand? You can argue for a certain degree of police state in Xinjiang for a few years in the past, but arguing for an ongoing genocide is absolutely nonsensical, which is the conversation that we started.
Maybe you’re muddling stuff up with someone else in another comment chain said?
I, and please double check my posts, don’t think I’ve said (and hopefully not said anything that implies) I think there is mass murder of Uighurs.
We’ve also in this conversation not mentioned the camps being closed, and while I’ve yet to see conclusive evidence of that my use of “is/was” was intended to allow the possibility.
I thought your main point, and what we were discussing was:
there isn’t a shred of photographic evidence of violence against the Uyghur people. The claims start on 2019-2020, and in FIVE YEARS, it hasn’t been possible to capture photographic evidence of the harrowing genocide?
And hence the focus on these files, which maybe don’t show the hyperbolic levels of “harrowing genocide”, do, I think, show that there is/was evidence of harrowing violence against the Uighur people - which you yourself seem just about ready to admit to as “a certain degree of police violence”, in addition to the state violence of mass incaerations and guilt by association that these documents show.
weak. Ok, education camps show videos of how glorious and indivisible China is. Did you know that US children are forced to recite similar pledge of allegiance every day? Ok, the police have made a plan for dealing with insurrection. This is pure brainwashing about the power to present nothing as brainwashing, with enough style and dramatic music score.
Yes, murica and china are pretty much on the same level when it comes to indoctrination. That doesn’t make either a good thing. I find the leadership of both countries abhorrent, sometimes one more than the other.
Except there’s evidence, and not just satellite photos of internment camps. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/hacked-chinese-government-files-gives-new-insights-on-the-mass-detention-of-ethnic-uighurs
You can continue to hang onto some conspiracy-theory-esque logic of “but it doesn’t make sense”, or you can face reality. There are enough hurdles to getting a photo on the internet and then noticed by the wider public that it’s entirely explainable.
Thanks, I hadn’t seen that. What strikes me as odd is that neither side mentions a huge factor in the conflict: China’s investment in the “belt & road” initiative which relies on the old “Silk Road” route which passes through Xinjiang.
The Uighurs did have an independence separatist movement (China isn’t paranoid) and it would disrupt these plans. China aint letting go of its tight grip any time soon.
Removed by mod
Source of your article:
If you still take seriously anything coming from Adrian Zenz, chairman of the Victims of Communism Memorial Association and rabid Christian conservative, it’s your fault
Yes, but he didn’t make up the files. They’re a real leak of Chinese data.
By virtue of his name being attached to the anti-China side of the conversation, he’s going to end up with things like this.
The documents were also examined independently of him by 14, iirc, different organisations to ensure validity and veracity.
The files may be real, but they’re no evidence of genocide in the slightest
Would you be more convinced if we moved the goalposts to that old Right Wing nutjob phrase “cultural genocide”?
Throwing people into camps for traditional values, guilt by association or proximity, (from the files, along with goals of sinisation).
And the imposition of modern wage labour, while removing local language and lifestyles.
Or will you at least conced that if those files are real, then there is/was a huge mass detention campaign that bordered upon, if not being one, a crime against humanity?
What part of “the camps are closed” don’t you seem to understand? You can argue for a certain degree of police state in Xinjiang for a few years in the past, but arguing for an ongoing genocide is absolutely nonsensical, which is the conversation that we started.
Maybe you’re muddling stuff up with someone else in another comment chain said?
I, and please double check my posts, don’t think I’ve said (and hopefully not said anything that implies) I think there is mass murder of Uighurs.
We’ve also in this conversation not mentioned the camps being closed, and while I’ve yet to see conclusive evidence of that my use of “is/was” was intended to allow the possibility.
I thought your main point, and what we were discussing was:
And hence the focus on these files, which maybe don’t show the hyperbolic levels of “harrowing genocide”, do, I think, show that there is/was evidence of harrowing violence against the Uighur people - which you yourself seem just about ready to admit to as “a certain degree of police violence”, in addition to the state violence of mass incaerations and guilt by association that these documents show.
weak. Ok, education camps show videos of how glorious and indivisible China is. Did you know that US children are forced to recite similar pledge of allegiance every day? Ok, the police have made a plan for dealing with insurrection. This is pure brainwashing about the power to present nothing as brainwashing, with enough style and dramatic music score.
Yes, murica and china are pretty much on the same level when it comes to indoctrination. That doesn’t make either a good thing. I find the leadership of both countries abhorrent, sometimes one more than the other.