No one said Obama wasn’t also evil. In fact, no one mentioned him at all. And he wasn’t one of the options in the last election. Why are you so obsessed with him?
There are arguments to be made in favor of that yes, in the sense accelerationism. But that is based on the delusion that the fascist state will eat itself in the end, which is not guaranteed. That and all the suffering of course.
What I’d really prefer is not to have a corrupt lying stooge between me and decision-making.
Accelerationism is a horrible idea. It’s based on the ideas that,
We can’t prevent having a fascist state now and then,
We can afford the waste and suffering this causes.
With climate change, it should be clear that we can no longer afford the luxuries of wars or even culture wars. Technological advancement should allow us to live with far less waste and far less labor than we do. But that would mean departing from capitalism entirely. We need that post scarcity society now. Resource wise it’s a lot cheaper than what we have now.
I agree that it currently is, but it doesn’t have to be.
I really don’t know how to solve these problems. It would require people to stop being selfish, scared , petty and mean to start with, but there is a huge propaganda machine fanning on those feelings constantly. Revolution is a huge waste of resources, energy and people and usually leads to a new government by the new batch of the most eager and ruthless opportunists.
That’s what Chomsky said too, I don’t buy it. In my country there are 10+ parties, 6 of which in government, and people are still playing the lesser evil game in the deluded hope they can shift the window.
Yes and every time you vote in our little country it’s still for the least bad party. It’s the nature of politics. You may like a party, but it still has politicians in it, who are human. Humans seem to be inherently flawed.
The nature of parliamentary politics sure, but that’s just oligarchy with a thin veneer of democracy. No politician is ever responsible, stronger still, the more they push austerity, the more they are rewarded with top-level positions in international institutions. That is what drives politicians, not the betterment of their people. So I can’t undo myself of the impression that participating in this sham is reinforcing it, legitimizing it.
It does, actually. Ice cream can put you at grave risk of brain freeze.
If you want to be philosophical about it, consider this: If there weren’t pros and cons, you wouldn’t be making a choice at all. (You would be acting arbitrarily.)
And even breathing has downsides. For instance, it means I must continue sharing the planet with you. This is terrible news. (Also my nose is cold.)
What a fucking dipshit stupid non-answer that also exposes how little you think and how little empathy you have.
Oh I’ll just not participate and I’ll never be subject to whatever law/power that happens next, but more importantly fuck everyone around me that this will effect far more than I, because I’m privileged enough to not have to really think of dealing with it. I live in moron-land where only my thoughts dictate what happens in the world.
Your actions have affected lives around you whether you believe in it or not, stop being this fucking naive in the face of all the people you’ve let down. Shame on you.
P.S. to mods, before canning this comment, do a real good think about how uncivilized having an opinion like this really is. Weigh out who’s really affected by this type of thinking and spreading it vs. this one moron’s feelings for once.
That’s not an option. So that just means you are delusional.
If you didn’t vote for Harris, you helped Trump get elected. That’s basically the same as voting for Trump.
All the morons that for instance criticized how Democrats handled Israel/Gaza, and recommended not to vote Democrat, are partly responsible for what’s going on there now, with no help coming through, and widespread starvation and disease!
All the morons that complained about inflation, despite it was getting back to normal after COVID, are responsible for the economic chaos we have now.
By not supporting the lesser evil, you are actually helping the greater evil.
There are lots of way more constructive things to do, that can help push things in the right direction, than just being in denial.
One could argue that by voting you’re supporting the status quo, the bipartisan democracy heavily invested in said status quo. You are the one obstructing change.
Or to say it with a quote:
If democracy demands compulsory voting for candidates people can’t believe in, it’s not democracy, it’s extortion.
EDIT: One further thought on that reasoning: it might actually make one morally obliged to vote for a third party.
One can argue anything, but that doesn’t mean it makes sense.
If you want to change American democracy, which I agree is sorely needed, then you need to engage actively in politics. UNTIL such change has arrived, you are still a moron for not preventing a greater evil, when you are given that option.
You are saying you won’t use the democratic option you have because it’s not democratic enough. Well I got news for you, democracy can never be perfect, because democracy is about compromise.
Here we have 12 parties in parliament we can vote on, so we have options for mostly everyone. But it’s still a game of compromise.
If you can’t find the best compromise among 2 parties, you sure as hell can’t among several either. You just want to whine, so you would probably still whine even if you lived in the best democracy in the world.
Voting Republican is voting for evil.
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No one said Obama wasn’t also evil. In fact, no one mentioned him at all. And he wasn’t one of the options in the last election. Why are you so obsessed with him?
Am I? I just hate the lesser evil bullshit.
You prefer the more evil?
There are arguments to be made in favor of that yes, in the sense accelerationism. But that is based on the delusion that the fascist state will eat itself in the end, which is not guaranteed. That and all the suffering of course.
What I’d really prefer is not to have a corrupt lying stooge between me and decision-making.
Accelerationism is a horrible idea. It’s based on the ideas that,
We can’t prevent having a fascist state now and then,
We can afford the waste and suffering this causes.
With climate change, it should be clear that we can no longer afford the luxuries of wars or even culture wars. Technological advancement should allow us to live with far less waste and far less labor than we do. But that would mean departing from capitalism entirely. We need that post scarcity society now. Resource wise it’s a lot cheaper than what we have now.
No argument here, I wholeheartedly agree. But let me state the obvious: parliamentary democracy is a feature of capitalism.
I agree that it currently is, but it doesn’t have to be.
I really don’t know how to solve these problems. It would require people to stop being selfish, scared , petty and mean to start with, but there is a huge propaganda machine fanning on those feelings constantly. Revolution is a huge waste of resources, energy and people and usually leads to a new government by the new batch of the most eager and ruthless opportunists.
Hate it all you want, but until you can establish a viable third party (who isn’t also awful), “lesser of two evils” is the only choice you have.
Isn’t that literally life?
It’s every single choice these people have ever made and they still don’t get it.
That’s what Chomsky said too, I don’t buy it. In my country there are 10+ parties, 6 of which in government, and people are still playing the lesser evil game in the deluded hope they can shift the window.
Yes and every time you vote in our little country it’s still for the least bad party. It’s the nature of politics. You may like a party, but it still has politicians in it, who are human. Humans seem to be inherently flawed.
The nature of parliamentary politics sure, but that’s just oligarchy with a thin veneer of democracy. No politician is ever responsible, stronger still, the more they push austerity, the more they are rewarded with top-level positions in international institutions. That is what drives politicians, not the betterment of their people. So I can’t undo myself of the impression that participating in this sham is reinforcing it, legitimizing it.
What is the alternative though?
That’s… life. You’ve never not made a lesser-of-two-evils choice. It’s metaphysically impossible.
Very interesting viewpoint but it doesn’t quite seem to apply when choosing flavors at an ice cream parlor.
It does, actually. Ice cream can put you at grave risk of brain freeze.
If you want to be philosophical about it, consider this: If there weren’t pros and cons, you wouldn’t be making a choice at all. (You would be acting arbitrarily.)
And even breathing has downsides. For instance, it means I must continue sharing the planet with you. This is terrible news. (Also my nose is cold.)
Yeah, you prefer the greater evil, we get it
Funny how people like you is against LGBT, but you’re the first to lick Donald’s ass clean.
You’re the one who brought him into the conversation.
Lol what is it that people like you don’t understand? Do you want to be kicked in the nuts twice or once? Easy fucking choice every single time.
I’d reckon it’s more natural to try and avoid any nut-kicking, but hey, that’s me.
I wasn’t going to comment on this originally but…
What a fucking dipshit stupid non-answer that also exposes how little you think and how little empathy you have.
Oh I’ll just not participate and I’ll never be subject to whatever law/power that happens next, but more importantly fuck everyone around me that this will effect far more than I, because I’m privileged enough to not have to really think of dealing with it. I live in moron-land where only my thoughts dictate what happens in the world.
Your actions have affected lives around you whether you believe in it or not, stop being this fucking naive in the face of all the people you’ve let down. Shame on you.
P.S. to mods, before canning this comment, do a real good think about how uncivilized having an opinion like this really is. Weigh out who’s really affected by this type of thinking and spreading it vs. this one moron’s feelings for once.
That’s not an option. So that just means you are delusional.
If you didn’t vote for Harris, you helped Trump get elected. That’s basically the same as voting for Trump.
All the morons that for instance criticized how Democrats handled Israel/Gaza, and recommended not to vote Democrat, are partly responsible for what’s going on there now, with no help coming through, and widespread starvation and disease!
All the morons that complained about inflation, despite it was getting back to normal after COVID, are responsible for the economic chaos we have now.
By not supporting the lesser evil, you are actually helping the greater evil.
There are lots of way more constructive things to do, that can help push things in the right direction, than just being in denial.
One could argue that by voting you’re supporting the status quo, the bipartisan democracy heavily invested in said status quo. You are the one obstructing change.
Or to say it with a quote:
EDIT: One further thought on that reasoning: it might actually make one morally obliged to vote for a third party.
One can argue anything, but that doesn’t mean it makes sense.
If you want to change American democracy, which I agree is sorely needed, then you need to engage actively in politics. UNTIL such change has arrived, you are still a moron for not preventing a greater evil, when you are given that option.
You are saying you won’t use the democratic option you have because it’s not democratic enough. Well I got news for you, democracy can never be perfect, because democracy is about compromise.
Here we have 12 parties in parliament we can vote on, so we have options for mostly everyone. But it’s still a game of compromise.
If you can’t find the best compromise among 2 parties, you sure as hell can’t among several either. You just want to whine, so you would probably still whine even if you lived in the best democracy in the world.
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Huh, why didn’t I think of that?
Not gonna bite on this? I wonder why.
Obama. Your head. Rent free.
What fucking year do you think it is? Is Obama in the room with you right now?
People like you suck.
Love that you think you’re making a point here lmao
You sound like you drank paint during your formative years.
Actually, he/she seems vaguely intelligent and educated, which makes it extra perturbing that he/she knowingly acts so stupid.
That’s not fair to paint drinkers. Definitely dropped on their head a few times.