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“To avoid infighting, we’ve decided to collaborate with the Nazis” – leftist edition
The wildest thing is that db0 often argues with Tankies about unity as they repeatedly tell him that they’ll kill anarchists if given the chance.
Yet for whatever reason, the few anarchists left on dbzer0 and db0 himself insist on aligning with them. https://hexbear.net/post/7507322/6879735
One would think in a community that says no ML they would just ban on sight
the frog is boiling
I think part of this is the losing of hope within the left in systems that aren’t more forceful like ML, due to the failures of the progressive capitalist/socdem/demsocs in going against fascist and imperialist policy. Also because literally Cuba good (hot take!!!), as much as any other examples of ML end up in corrupt leaders and violence (Laos being anti-LGBT at least, and don’t get me started on how China isn’t even really ML anymore but rather a capitalist fascist country in the skin of a socialist country).
I gave db0 just a smidge of evidence that tankies are coordinating a takeover of Dbzer0, including dbzer0 admins aiding the takeover. Naturally, this is Db0’s reply
He’s kinda given up, sad. He’d rather own the libs than admit he’s being treated like every single anarchist in history. Bizarre how they keep falling for betrayal. Perhaps this time the Authoritarians won’t eat me! Literal insanity.they also are infiltrating the more"neutral" political memes sub too, i noticed it has very tankie postings. after thier tankie instances have mostly been blocked by most fed users, i assume they arnt getting much engagement.
The fact that he uses the term “turbolibs” proves he is already infected with tankie brainrot.
I find their obsession with the term “libs” fascinating.
It has a very different meaning outside of the US. Which goes to show that their whole “but my global south!!” is fake and performative.
same, only because the conservatives use “lib as insult too” see the common denominator. but they add “shitlib” as alternative. by in far US, has never been liberal in anyway, political or otherwise outside of a very small nich groups.
It’s the outside-the-US meaning that anarchists would typically use, and the US-centric definition is effectively a subset of the general definition when viewed from a leftist perspective, as they’re both capitalist with minimal regulation, just in the US it’s got the added connotations of being less homophobic and racist etc. then the centre of the Overton window, whereas classic liberalism isn’t incompatible with racism and homophobia etc…
Mhmm.
I sense embrace-extend-extinguish.
the US-centric definition is effectively a subset of the general definition
Are you sure about that? Can you cite a real world comparative example with specifics (attitudes, views, perspective, key historical points relevant to this conversation)? No meaningless generalities.
It’s the outside-the-US meaning that anarchists would typically use … when viewed from a leftist perspective, as they’re both capitalist with minimal regulation
If that’s the case, are you saying that a liberal in Moldova, Oman and the US are all the same and “capitalist with minimal regulation” is all that they are?
And the points above are just the tip of the iceberg, the kindergarten-level stuff.
So here is another question, so when you say liberals in Oman and the US are a subset of the same thing, do anarchists have the final call of defining who qualifies as a liberal in Oman (or any other country)? Does self identification as liberal play any role or not? This is not a gotcha per se., well, maybe a little bit, I am referring to something specific :), but I am genuinely curious what you have to say on this.
I will say it again, this really is fascinating. There is a certain abstract beauty to the whole obsession with “libs” among American internet “leftists”.
Liberalism is a really broad family of conflicting political and moral philosophies, and it’s really just the capitalist with minimal regulation bit that’s consistently there in all the branches. Most of the time, people are only dealing with different branches of liberalism, and depending on the local politics, there might only be one major political party in a country calling themselves the liberals.
Generally, leftists will talk about liberals and liberalism a lot because they’re living under some branch of liberalism, and they disagree to some extent with every branch of liberalism. Socialism, Communism and Anarchism are not Liberalism (and if you want to upset tankies and say it’s distinct from communism or upset other leftists and say it’s leftist Marxism-Leninism is not liberalism, too). Fascism and Conservatism are also not liberalism, but they’re not leftist, either, and to confuse things, lots of political parties calling themselves conservative around the world only want things that fit a definition of liberalism.
I mentioned anarchism and what anarchists think in the previous post because you replied to a post with a screenshot where an anarchist mentioned libs and seemed to think it was ambiguous what he meant, when it’s deducible from the fact that he’s an anarchist.
So here is another question, so when you say liberals in Oman and the US are a subset of the same thing
The thing I’ve noticed about the most vocal leftists here is that they all subscribe to the “spheres of influence” idea, where countries essentially belong to the great power whose sphere they exist in. Such countries (and the people within them) don’t have any agency or rights except as afforded by their great power masters. As such, Oman doesn’t matter or even really exist.
Anytime I see anyone use the word “lib” or “liberal” used the way these people do, I can’t help but think of Alex Jones. Not really the guy you want your behavior to remind people of, I think.
we’re not going to ban tankies on sight
But the start of the blurb on leftymemes says
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of “ML” (read: Dengist) influence.
… ???
Who are “turbolibs” and why are they trying to keep them happy? ???
???
Bizarre how they keep falling for betrayal.
Yeah. Mind-blowing.
That’s the old blurb, they changed it a little while ago.
He’d rather own the libs than admit he’s being treated like every single anarchist in history.
Nah, with terminally online cosplayers, the result is almost always “Mask off, actually was aligned with tankies all along” rather than “Principled opposition getting betrayed after alliance of convenience”. That’s more of a real-world anarchist pitfall.
The leopards are contracting obesity, it seems
Speaking of leopards, I got banned from leopardsatemyface, for not conforming to their very very narrow dogma on one topic. Seems like they’re already well “established”.
Okay, but do you expect them not to know who you are when you’re doing this?
If pointing at the name Diva is self explanatory enough, so is pointing to the name goat. It’s just known users beefing with known users, regardless of content.
Like, he surely knows he is talking to you on an account you made to evade your ban off his instance?
And who am I to you? Since most of the shit said about me is blatantly false.
The person that runs this community. Both have a reputation, and from what I recall you were banned from db0 a while back. That was somewhere around the time you made the totalanarchy community just to place it in time. So db0 giving a tired response to you about tankies just isn’t wild to me.
I was banned from dbzer0 after I challenged cowbee posting tankie copypasta. I called dbzer0 out for being a tankie bar.
Right, so this very much isn’t a new thing with you, db0, or tankies. That’s the gist of what I mean.
No, it’s not, dbzer0 has been a tankie bar for quite a while.
Figured that perhaps some evidence of the takeover would sway db0 that tankies aren’t friends with anarchists, but tankie bar will tankie bar.
Someone else posted this yesterday elsewhere. G is only reposting it.
I got the funniest responses to this comment. It was so bad that by the time I tried to respond, the mods had deleted them all already lmao
Afterthought [from both our experience] : maybe they’re just prejudiced and ableist against autistics.
:3
… and/or our blunt honesty, and our critiques of systems and logic.
They’re going after autistic people?!
Or plausibly even autistic themselves, with CPTSD, and the resultant black&white overly reductive reflexive “thinking”, contrary to the “a place for undogmatic”.
They were ableist towards you as well?
Not to the point of post/reply removal nor banning, yet. But I get that vibe. At least enough to offer the plausibility. As may fit your example experience.
Tankie takeover? I always thought that the whole point of the anarchy instance was to try to pick up all people Russian-Chinese propaganda disguised under communist rhetoric couldn’t. It’s basically a charismatic facewash that falls back to the last wildcard of just trying to generically shit on governments because “they work against the people - but also, let’s create all the systems governments represent while just applying the stroke of its for the people somewhere”. In other words, it’s the communist mantra except rather than identifying itself as communism it just focuses on identifying governments bad while trying to promote governance but with some mental gymnastic spin.
Not sure the whole lemmy-derived fediverse hasn’t been irrevocably tainted by these cult-forming/alt-bot factory communities. You can find instances that defederate from these, the problem is you immediately get a dissected part of the community because they are the baseline founding communities and the resulting conversations have discourse hidden from you that they don’t and can freely attempt to manipulate.
because they are the baseline founding communities and the resulting conversations have discourse hidden from you that they don’t and can freely attempt to manipulate.
.ml doesn’t have the most active communities since a few years
!asklemmy@lemmy.world is much more active than !asklemmy@lemmy.ml , !fediverse@lemmy.world is much more active than !fediverse@lemmy.ml
For the few remaining, there are usually alternatives, e.g. !privacy@lemmy.ml , but !privacy@programming.dev is a valid alternative
The current system is flawed. This system will always carry its foundational weaknesses. Your counterexamples are examples of the dissection you have to force, never mind that it does not address the problem at the user level.
Yeah, lemmy is well and truly dead. you need diversity for a platform to grow and Lemmy doesn’t have that since all the “bad diversity” has been removed.
I don’t see it that way, but I do see users coming into it and having to face lower quality arguments without nuance along with trolling or having to face low interaction rates, or ridiculous beehive charades of argument chains too surreal to seem real, and just choosing to go back to the mainstream platforms instead.
having to face lower quality arguments without nuance along with trolling or having to face low interaction rates, or ridiculous beehive charades of argument chains too surreal to seem real,
Yep. And at times, that and worse from mods.
As per the
all the “bad diversity” has been removed
effect.
Gate-keeping. Groupthink of the mods.
Though, lets remember, this is still the fediverse. It’s not a monolith where the mods are the mods. Mods some communities are worse, some are better, and we can always start our own communities and host our own instances.
Robust enough against lemmy being “dead”, like @goat@sh.itjust.works said.
Anarchist are just tankies who don’t like the term. Kinda like conservatives who say they’re libertarians. They’re just magas with hammer and sickles.
Or democratic socialists that like to pretend they’re anti-electoral, while still saying pro-Western crap without some modicum of criticism (also though the tankies need their criticism too since often tankies devolves into fascist-adjacent or fascist governments, like China with their genocides and capitalism).
The first world left doesn’t exist, it’s so overly splintered with people threatening each other in knife fights over silly differences, with the spectre of western and eastern propaganda spitroasting first worlders’ minds. We need someone influential in some form to lead everyone that isn’t going to be Napoleon/Stalin 2.0, but that sounds like it’s against conventional Marxist thought, but I don’t have any better ideas.
AI generated hammer and sickles
nothing screams anarchist like using GenAI and enabling enshittification.
Or nothing screams “communism” like that either.
Wait i thought tankies were confined to hexbear and grad ? Did ml get breached too ? Feels like i started a movie and left then got back halfway through lol
.ml has always been tankies, they’ve just kept the mask on until recently. But it’s mostly the same people and the same talking points
They’ve never worn a mask. The saving grace is that the worst of the worst rarely post outside of their safe space. Had grad and hex not been leaky toxic messes. They would likely still be federated.
I’m following this community rn because of ML and I hardly know what Grad is, so that should tell you something.
After ChapoTrapHouse on reddit got quarantined, lemmy.ml popped up as an alternative hub for tankies. Afterwards, the more tankie elements of lemmy.ml temporarily moved to lemmygrad to make Lemmy look more attractive for “normies”
Following the reddit refugee wave, Tankies found themselves greatly outnumbered, so they had to bring in hexbear, which was created after ChapoTrapHouse got banned.
now trying to shift to more “normal” political communities to disguise thier group.
Ignorance is bliss. No offense intended. I generally agree with most regarding .ml. But grad and hex were really on another level. Generally the worst you get from ml are dogpile downvoted and paragraphs long copypasta or LLM generated dogma screed. Often unrelated to what you posted or just whataboutism.
Grad and hex would perform an organized brigading against you and often leave your inbox a largely unusable.
Jesus, that sounds horrible. And then that one anti-AI community doxxed an ml-type troll for some fucking reason and now they can use that as a “Look what they do to us! For shame, for shame!” And for what? Why would they fucking dox a troll? Who tf cares enough to do that?
Sorry, got off on a bit of a rant lol I’ve heard a lot about that incident but it seems we’re not allowed to bring it up or something at the risk of endangering that person again, so nobody has told me the details yet of what happened.
Oo
.ml isn’t all tankies like hexbear and grad, but there are a decent amount of them over there.
That’s what I was thinking
“Tankie” is for liberals what “woke” is for right-wingers.
Naa you’re just maga with a hammer and sickle icon. You’re still pro-authoritarian
Maybe other people (although it feels a bit too intellectually “dissonant” for it to be viable), but certainly not me.
Naa you as well. You literally post russian propaganda, and act like Ukraine/NATO is the reason russia invaded… you’re a tankie, you just don’t seem to want to admit it.
I will never understand why a tankie wants to support a capitalist nation (yes formerly ML but like that’s long ago smh, even if you think being a tankie is good) invading a sovereign nation that doesn’t deserve invasion. Ukraine, Cuba, Palestine, Taiwan, it doesn’t matter their ideologies, these countries are sovereign nations (or supposed to be in the case of Palestine) that didn’t need a fucking invasion.
What is a tankie in your opinion?
A now popular word used by “liberals” for anyone that doesn’t just regurgitate Western narratives, from what I’ve seen.
What are Western narratives?
Communism never worked at all (crushing of communist revolutions and calling Cuba and pre-Maduro Venezuela bad, as much as the latter was anti LGBT which is a major problem), Israel has a right to defend itself, ignore the rapists alongside Epstein, Democrats and Republicans are different in their goals, regime change in other Latin American countries, communism killed more than capitalism (which is more debatable when you consider economic death in capitalism, but then again the holodomor was really really bad and targeted Ukraine, and don’t get me started on the Muslim genocide in China), Islam is violent, so on so on.
There are some things there I disagree with.
Weird way to say “I am a proud tankie” but ok
The tankiest! 🤷🙄
Nah man, some of us liberals are sane and don’t think people should be blasted with tanks for not obeying government, we don’t deny tiananmen square massacre either
