Someone who disagrees with our current actions in the middle east but is (to an unknown degree) buying into the idea that Israel is controlling the USA.
There’s most Zionists in the US than in Israel. Many of those Zionists are in high positions of power.
This is the analysis of the Aixs of Resistance and why they refer to this whole as the “Zionist Entity.”
the dummy doesn’t control the ventriloquist. israel is nothing more than a money-laundering front and test ground for military contractors. if the pentagon’s budget ever goes down, israelis will return to their ancestral homeland of miami beach.
I don’t know how politically savvy they are, but one analogy you could make is how the Democrat’s legislative agenda keeps getting stymied by a rotating cast of “maverick” legislators like Sinema or Manchin. That’s a way of running cover for the much larger group Dem legislators that want to kill the legislative agenda. Those legislators get the benefit of appearing to support popular legislation, while getting the outcome their donors want. The “maverick” legislators are either in safe seats, or are given off-ramps into cozy lobbying jobs.
Similarly, the seemingly insanely ambitious Israeli policy of military supremacy in the middle east, and the destruction of the states of Syria, Iraq and now Iran, is a way for the USA to achieve those goals with the plausible deniability that it’s just them supporting their ally. The USA seemingly lets itself suffer the humiliation of letting it’s small vassal state dictate it’s foreign policy in the middle east because it’s useful and is advancing US interests in the region.
In cases where Israel starts acting counter to US interests, they get clapped pretty quickly.
It gets a bit confusing when it comes to stuff like the Gaza genocide and the wars against Lebanon. Those are priorities of Israel, but the USA is merely indifferent. So why does the USA follow through with this repression against pro-Palestinian speech? That’s where you have actual lobbying from Israel, combined with the actual koolaid-drinkers like Biden.
The tail doesn’t wag the dog. Israel has counter-influence, but is thoroughly dependent on the US Empire.
Ehhhhhh, with how much dirt they have on US politicians, it makes me wonder who has more control now
The Epstein files are (partially) out and not a single one of these murderous pedophiles is going to serve time. I highly doubt they give a fuck about whatever dirt Israel has. They can just say “nuh-uh, fake news, AI-generated, etc”. Of course, the US has destroyed its image globally but within the country, it doesn’t fucking matter.
Maybe they once cared, but the blackmail is out and no damage has been done. Wonder if that affects anything down the line.
That just bolsters class cohesion among imperialists, it has very little influence on base mechanisms. If Israel weren’t essential to the US’ dominance of the globe, all those superstructural influences would quickly wither away.
The dirt is that they take bribes, they do nepotism, and they’re pedophiles. Everyone already knows this stuff and nothing happened.
The CIA and FBI have dirt on U.S. politicians, but still don’t control the government, they’re tools of the capital, the strings not the hands.
“What a convenient way to absolve the American elite of any blame or agency”
Israel is just a biblical excuse for the west to ethnically cleanse and colonize the middle east
Jewish people just got lucky. Right time right place. We would’ve propped up a Christian Levant state or Kurdish state to provide destabilization. No point in propping up a state for brown folk when we already got the white folk moving there to be our partners in crime.
I don’t think it is accurate to characterize them as lucky in this. Honestly, I do occasionally feel bad that thr people of isreal were expatriated from their homes in Europe to be turned into a janissary core.
Like, the place needs to be sent into the sea, but we took an abused and traumatized population gave them guns and then bred them to abuse and traumatized others. Like, I have to imagine the psychic damage of it all is wild. The domestic abuse numbers have to be off thr charts you know.
Isreal was built. Not some natural population of battered immigrants. It was built from an idea.
Yeah, but like, the Germans kept the homes they were kicked out of then they were given guns to go do the thing that happened to them to someone else. That was a seccond evil act done to the population. Not that it justifies their behavior but fuck, it’s bleak you know. We literally could have just given then a chunk of Utah and there would have been no significant negative externalities you know. So for some portions of their population they are victims of a fucked up situation we created. The window for that to be a driving social force is closed, but it is on balance, only a generation or two away from that. That is some heavy psychic damage to get through.
Nope, not feeling bad at all. What did the Congolese get after Leopold ? Haitians after their revolution? Isrelis got a state and then the nakbah, and now unfiltered support. So their mental state is unimportant, we shouldn’t care how bad after getting their way.
idk how a person could be aware of the epstein shit and the vast breadth of the conspiracy with everything involved, see that next to how the U.S. treats Israel, and think that Israel does not have a significant degree of influence over the U.S. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, a “vassal” isn’t allowed to act the way Israel does. If you see no difference in the U.S.-Israel relationship and the relationship between the U.S. and like, any country in Europe, I think you’re blind. Vassals show deference, Israel is essentially constantly posturing as “And what are you gonna do about it?” to the U.S., and yes, that is despite Israel’s continued existence hinging on U.S. support.
I think people continuing to argue over this is just a testament to how incredibly effective Israel’s “Israel = all jews, criticizing Israel = doing an antisemitism” propaganda push has been.
There’s a world of difference between “Israel is vital the US’s plans in the middle east and is given a lot more leeway than their other more spineless (and less useful) vassals” and “Israel are the sinister puppet masters behind the curtain controlling everything bad in the world ever and the only solution is that the untermensch Juden must be destroyed.”
To a layperson with no historical or material understanding, ideas of “Israel gets away with things because they control the US, not the other way around.” will just convince them that the Nazis were right all along. Our goal is to educate, not to provide more ammo for fascists.
when my vassals act like Israel I complain to Paradox that their game is bugged
The US has a paternal fondness for Israel, having himself been such a bloodthirsty expansionist vassal in his own youth
I don’t think “Jews support genocide” should be any more controversial as a stand alone statement than “whites support genocide”. It’s obviously not always true just almost always true. The two state solution is still genocide.
at no point have i voiced a statement about jews
Sorry: replied to the wrong comment.
tell them that the leaders in the united states have agency and to stop infantalizing american fascists
Israel is a land-based aircraft carrier for the USA and it receives all it’s military aid to do it’s adventures from the very same USA. Joe Biden said it best, we’d have to invent them to protect our interests.
Two heads of the same aquila
They touch on this in the last chapo episode, which is an interview with journalist Seamus Malefakzali. It’s a free episode, have a listen, it’s pretty colloquial language.
The US has been heavily involved in the mideast for 60-70 years. The US relationship with Israel has changed during that span more than America’s predilection for interference in the mideast.
The one viden quote about how if there was no Israel theyd have to make one to pursue their objectives in the region
israel has interests that don’t 100% align with what’s best for the empire and sometimes those win because specific secretaries or senators or recent presidents who might say no to them are in the bag for israel even when it’s detrimental
they also have enough influence to unseat congressional representatives, even if bibi doesn’t have his arm up trump’s ass like a ventriloquist
it seems to me that capital rules both, and the USA is more important to capital
but I guess I don’t think putting it that way would be the best way to reach a liberal
Capital and also, PURELY IMO, I’ve gotten an increasing sense over the last few years that there’s a lot of overlap between the two governments just in terms of people and personal ties.
Like it almost feels more correct to start from the assumption the US/isreal are, functionally, the same organization and and then to delineate differences from there. Not really a who-controls-who thing because that starts from the position there’s a lot of separation.
I don’t think that’d really reach a liberal either because their mindset of national identity might as well be as tangible as the earth and sun to a lot of them but that’s just the thought I had thinking about the thread/topic.
Also hard to parse because you get into conspiracy territory. Just because two powerful people know each other doesn’t mean there’s a power dynamic, they could be buddies, they could just like helping each other. Networking and converging interests can make two people with huge mansions pull some moves together.
None of this is at you specifically btw. Your comment just got my hamsters running. Reminded me there’s a certain kind of casual banality to all of this stuff because of how power, capital and money scales etc.
the US/isreal are, functionally, the same organization
The Zionist Entity, if you will
Honestly it kinda does? Most of the control in the other direction but you have guys like Chuck Schumer openly saying his main job is Israel
It is.
America is a rascist imperialist project and isreal are our mercenaries in the middle east. They kill women and children for us so we have plausible deniablity. So yes, they are contributing to the American project of global genocide
Contributing to the project and controlling the US are two very different things though
