- cross-posted to:
- vietnam@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- vietnam@lemmy.ml
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I Love Derived Demand I Love Derived Demand
When transportation becomes something you don’t have to think about or budget for, that time and money become free for anything else along those routes. I love watching the urban transformation that happens with that. It seems like they also just invested in bicycle infrastructure right before the crisis began: https://vietcetera.com/en/can-bicycles-become-vietnams-next-urban-transport-solution
napkin math
280 million / ( 14 million (city population) x 0.76 (76% Vietnam’s population over 14 years) )
~$27 / adult
does anyone know if the annual cost of private vehicle ownership in Vietnam is more or less than $27? please help I can’t tell if this is good value or not
Plus they now dont have to spend money on ticket controllers or ticket-selling Infrastructure
This is the part that I think a lot of people forget when discussing making transit free. I have seen how much the contracts cost for payment systems, and how often ticket machines and tourniquets need to be maintained. Having a barrier-free transit system (both physically and economically) is in many ways much simpler.
The amount of graft and grifting that goes on with the contracts for the digital architecture of public transport ticketing…
Or another example: the NYC metro spending millions to develop a door with spikesI don’t believe there are any staff aboard the automated trains in Vancouver. Perhaps it depends on historical perception of safety on the system.
There’s been a lot of cutbacks in most countries that mean public transport isn’t as good as it could be. There should be some safety staff, but most places won’t have them. It sucks. Hopefully any place that experiments with free public transport will still keep some staff around, even if it’s not the most bigmoney move
They saw Zohran trying to do this in NY and realized they couldn’t allow themselves to get lapped by a demsoc or a socdem or whatever he is
They already had free bus travel for 65+. Its a good program, but I suspect buses only displace motorbike riders, since the kind of people who buy cars aren’t likely to take the bus.
The entire traffic problem in HCMC and Hanoi is the 2 million cars block the 20+ million bikes.
Displacing motorbike riders is still a huge plus. Their emissions per gallon of fuel travelled are really high even if the fuel consumption is low (meaning their overall emissions aren’t that bad), plus motorbikes really are quite a dangerous way to travel.
Fingers crossed that they will do something about private car use, too - but this is exactly the kind of thing they need to do as a foundation for that, anyway!
I guess, I just see a lot that can be done to improve the situation regarding motorbikes before you start talking about getting them off the road. Nearly all motorbike fatalities in VN involve texting while riding, riding in the wrong direction, alcohol, and/or cars. These aren’t unsolvable problems.
Regarding emissions, there’s been a push to electrify bikes, but the vinfasts are kinda bad and a new Dat Bike costs >3x a Honda Wave, and even for families that get the things, the power grid and fire safety situation is not great.
wtf people are texting on motorcycles??
Vietnam lol. These people ride bikes every day since childhood, and brushing against moving bikes as you cross through school of slow moving motorbikes is just normal. They’re shockingly comfortable with bikes and traffic.
Weirdly, riding a bike in HCMC/Hanoi traffic is infinitely less stressful than driving a car in America, despite traffic rules being largely vibes based. People are selfish, but not spiteful if that makes any sense. You’ll get cut off if you give too much room, but at the same time, cars stop at lights to leave lanes for bikes to filter to the front. I’ve literally never seen someone acting out of roadrage, brakechecking, not letting people by, etc.
At least they’re all wearing helmets
Literally any kind of headwear qualifies, so in the countryside, you get grandma wearing her rice hat on the bike like it’s a helmet. In the city, plastic baseball caps with no padding aren’t uncommon.
I’ve seen this so much in China too
I guess, I just see a lot that can be done to improve the situation regarding motorbikes before you start talking about getting them off the road.
I mean, yeah, but what’s the downside to getting them off the road, with free public transport? Especially with the issues you names with electric bikes. We need to be moving away from personal vehicles, they’re super unsustainable, and free public transport is a great way to do that without infringing on anyone’s freedom to choose to ride if they want to.
We need to be moving away from personal vehicles, they’re super unsustainable
Nah, its literally just the cars. You can fit like 10 bikes and even more bicycles in the space of 1 car. That means you don’t need super wide roads, a quarter of your city destroyed to build parking lots, even traffic signaling can be removed if traffic is slow enough since bikes just go around pedestrians.
I mean, yeah, but what’s the downside to getting them off the road, with free public transport?
None at all, I support this, I just want them to do something about all the cars. They’re a danger both on an individual and societal level.
Nah, its literally just the cars. You can fit like 10 bikes and even more bicycles in the space of 1 car. That means you don’t need super wide roads, a quarter of your city destroyed to build parking lots, even traffic signaling can be removed if traffic is slow enough since bikes just go around pedestrians.
Fair, I was thinking specifically of fossil fuel bikes (which are unsustainable and afaik make up the vast majority of motorbikes in Vietnam). You will still need signals for public transport which will be necessary for the foreseeable future.
None at all, I support this, I just want them to do something about all the cars. They’re a danger both on an individual and societal level.
Free public transport is one of the best positive ways to take cars off the road, I would imagine (although we need to be looking at negative ways, too - preferably not based on extra cost, but at this point it just needs to happen no matter what).
Free public transport is one of the best positive ways to take cars off the road, I would imagine (although we need to be looking at negative ways, too - preferably not based on extra cost, but at this point it just needs to happen no matter what).
People paying to own a car in Vietnam aren’t concerned with practicality and cost as much as status, especially if it’s an import. The average 110cc Honda Wave carries more stuff than the average Ford Ranger and gets there faster. Sadly those same people have disproportionate influence on government policy because money. These are the kind of petty bourgeosie who block adding a bus lane to super-wide roads because it doesn’t serve them personally. The only way to take cars off the road in vietnam is to ban them or make them too expensive.
Fair, I was thinking specifically of fossil fuel bikes (which are unsustainable and afaik make up the vast majority of motorbikes in Vietnam). You will still need signals for public transport which will be necessary for the foreseeable future.
Yeah, displacing ICE bikes with electrics is its own battle. It’s astonishing they’ve made any progress at all given how difficult it is to get any major infrastructure project done in the cities and how mismanaged Vinfast Group is.
I’ll be back over there when the ICE bike ban in Hanoi kicks in in a couple months , it’ll be interesting to see if we get more electrics, bicycles, and bus ridership, or if people switch to cars, which aren’t being restricted until next year instead.
I mean, yeah, but what’s the downside to getting them off the road, with free public transport?
i’ve had several situations where riding a push bike was faster or more convenient than the public transit available. it depends on how your trip interacts with the routes and service times. The ride might be free but your time isn’t.
i’ve also had a situation where gas and prorated costs for driving was cheaper than two train tickets, free would’ve helped us if there was a return run before the next morning.
Gotta love this
But at what cost
$280M a year
vietnam is based
What’s the state of other public transportation in the city?
Well there’s a metro they’ve been building for 25 years. They’ve competed just under half of 1 line, with 14 stations operational.
And that’s it.
Part of the issue is property acquisition. A bunch of neighborhoods have ill defined property lines and owners (its not uncommon for an allyway to be annexed by someone putting down tile and a gate at either end. Then Google maps routes you through someone’s home and they shoo you out while brandishing a cleaver).
It gives Kawloon Walled City sometimes.
Yeah so it’s the Bangalore route. Metro is the best form of public transportation and should be priority because buses will always get stuck in traffic. Don’t see any reason to provide free bus tickets when they’re already very cheap.
Don’t see any reason to provide free bus tickets when they’re already very cheap.
you could flip that logic. Don’t see any reason to charge for bus tickets, when they’d have to be very cheap
buses will always get stuck in traffic
Not when BRT is done correctly
280M is a lot of money that can be used to build out better public transport which will work forever. I always take the metro over buses due to a multitude of reasons.
Buses are already cheap to operate hence the cheap fare. They don’t have to be profitable but instead they should charge fares at least from people who can afford paying them. Otherwise this will just paralyse the long term development of other more efficient solutions. I’ve seen it happen in Bangalore where traffic has completely overwhelmed roads and the commute sucks major ass because of underdeveloped metro systems. Delhi is so much better because you can catch a metro from almost anywhere.
Enforcing fares is troublesome especially if part of reason why people aren’t paying them is that they can’t afford it.
I feel like I somewhat failed because an islamic republic is damaging the petrodollar and making countries accept public transportation rather than a communist country
Price of oil going up is likely the trigger, but being a communist country helps because it’s much easier for them to make these kinds of decisions than under capitalism.
