Which one would you think is best? I heard Stalin was very beginner friendly.

But it wouldn’t be work then. There is no reason to commodify your sexuality if your survival does not depend on your labor. It would just be a hobby.

But we would still get paid doing it through only fans or some such system. Would that not be normal work like any other?

Edit: I guess you could make the same argument for other work but I think we can all agree that there is a difference between, for example, building infrastructure or schools or being a doctor and filming your sexuality for others to watch online.

See, I feel like i hear this everytime in these discussions as this self evident point. I don’t really see it as this self evident at all and literally all sex workers i have ever talked to also just see it as another job and chose it because it is less dehumanising for them than McDonalds or other minimum wage jobs.

It’s really hard for me to form a proper opinion beyond just listening to the sex workers themselves (especially marxist sex workers), nodding and saying “yeah, what she said!”. Especially with many marxists still being white men that have pre-revolution thought processes on social issues.

This is all excluding street prostitution and similar of course. I assume prostitution will die off the second these girls and women no longer need it/are forced and the rest who just enjoy it can maybe continue because it will be such a small number of people? Again, really hard for me to form a full ideological opinion on it.

Edit: Your comment here https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/7259454 already answered most of my questions actually :)

Well, only fans and such are also sex work. I know a good number of people who would love to continue their sex work under communism and also people that would only ever consider getting into sex work under communism.

People aren’t pushed leftwards, they’re pulled leftwards.

Yeah, and y’all are trying to rip them towards you. I am asking you to pull them more gently and somehow you hallucinate me saying that i want them pushed. Like, i don’t even think that you are strawmanning on purpose. You just imagine shit and think it’s real.

But you’re right that Hasan is the first part of the pipeline, though. It’s just too bad that that pipeline leads from himself to himself.

Laughable.

Removed by mod

I should’ve been harsher let me rectify that, you motherfuckers calling yourselves “socialists”, “leftists” and “progressives” have sacrificed revolutionary theory and fervour for electoral politics all in the name of making “leftist” ideas more popular

Yeah “fervour” (i.e just being pretentious and not knowing when to stfu about something) has gotten you so far already.

Also, again stop hallucinating and mistaking me for the kinda people that think that anything can be achieved with electoral politics. I am specifically talking about highlighting mamdani as hasan does and criticising the bad parts and praising the good parts. Just so that the liberal still has a nice tasty social fascist to gobble up, but with at least a little socialist spice added to it.

and what have you got to show for it?

no vanguard party

The people still think that socialists are fascists

no movement

The people still think that socialists are fascists

no motion

The people still think that socialists are fascists

no funds and no support

The people still think that socialists are fascists

You will never get anywhere if you are too harsh. The decision is between being right (which you are) and winning. You are correct in everything you say, but you have no one to agree with you. Hasan is working on getting people down the pipeline so that they can eventually grow into people that agree with you.

and you’ve been doing this since 2018 shut the fuck up

Stop scaring the hoes away. Swallow your ego (the thing you call fervour) and actually talk to a normal human being (the one’s you -rightfully- identify as social fascists) without insulting them.

Again, hallucinations. I didn’t say any of that and i especially didn’t say that we are less censored anywhere else.

I am saying that the western countries are not ready to hear you out if socialist still equals Nazi in the heads of the people.

Idk about the situation in brazil and why they seemingly are more ready to hear socialists out, but i assume it has to do with their material conditions being worse and having a clear enemy with no “acceptable left” (americas democrats) that catches all people who might radicalize to divert them to the ballot box.

We don’t exist yet. Leftism, especially socialism, is dead here and we sinply still need to work on building a base of people that is even willing to hear socialist ideas.

Hasan is part of exactly that. The first part of the pipeline.

I don’t think this is true at all. In Brazil

Pause. We ain’t talking about brazil. Leftist ideas over there might just be more acceptable to talk about and you won’t be immediately seen as something akin to a Nazi.

you have figures like Jones Manoel with 600k and Ian Neves with 500k subscribers on YouTube. They constantly emphasize how they’re Marxist-Leninists and how a revolution is needed in Brazil. Constantly. Jones has written multiple books, is currently in the academia, and he’s also an activist and constantly going around to agitate and give lectures. He has also run for governor in his state before (didn’t win), and he has contacts with federal representatives in the congress, as well. He’s completely unapologetic about his convictions and doesn’t hide them at all. In fact, he even said that he noticed that it’s better when working with non-communist politicians to just stick to your convictions rather than compromising them and pandering to others. That apparently that gets a better response. This is a guy that is actually changing things in Brazil. His follower count has seen dramatic rises on various platforms, and he’s also injecting actual Marxist-Leninist arguments into the general political debate there.

Considering that you get silenced, doxed, harassed or straight up attacked as a slightly more left liberal, i would say that a leftist won’t put up these numbers and if they did, then they might literally be killed.

Meanwhile, here you’re trying to convince everyone how Hasan “The Pipeline” Piker needs to do things slowly and “hide his power levels”.

Never said that. Hasan has a weird hater/fan base that seemingly only watches clips and reads about him from secondary or even tertiary comments and hallucinates an image about him that is not accurate at all and then y’all even extend it to people commenting about him and hallucinating things that were never said.

Oh, he can’t have any strong convictions,

He has strong convictions and constantly goes against liberals so idk what you are talking about

because that might scare off the liberals, but the guy in a country that had a right-wing military dictatorship not too long ago can.

I assume the military dictatorship was not supported by the proletariat and therefore a socialist coming up and promising change and betterment is probably more likely to be popular than the socialist in imperial america.

Bro, he’s not doing shit for the left.

More than us for sure. He is the literal first part of the pipeline and the reason why some of us are even here on this site.

but he hasn’t introduced socialist thought into the mainstream, and everyone just knows him for him as a personality rather than a force of the left/communism.

Considering that he is mainstream and constantly talks about socialist things, i have a hard time seeing how he didn’t introduce socialist thought to people? Like, yeah he ain’t rallying people behind him, but that is -like i said before- irrelevant because there is no one yet here that could rally behind him anyway.

He will be a somewhat major part on why the future socialist politicians have anyone to speak to and agitate.

You’ll learn a bunch from every single Ian and Jones video, what has one ever learned by watching Hasan? What theoretical contributions has he made?

Does he need to? He is talking to people that think china is cartoonishly evil. He is trying to move those people down the line so that they can watch your Ian and Jones videos without feeling the need to call them red fascists

You don’t need to introduce things slowly. How long has Bernie been around? If he was a “Trojan horse into the mind of the liberal”, you’d expect some changes in the American society by now, but the latter has moved even further right over the past decades.

Bernie is irrelevant now. We have mamdani now. I firmly believe that without a bernie, there wouldn’t be enough people warming up to more leftist ideas and accepting mamdani who is more left.

I am not saying that they are good and that they will lead us to win, that’s just you hallucinating again. I am saying that they are softening the people up with increasingly leftist ideas and that this will lead to us being able to talk about socialism proper eventually because the liberal mind will go “well, i am already at mamdani and he is not a red fascist, but also didn’thelp me, what is one more step to the left i guess”

There’s no historical evidence to suggest that entertaining liberals by pandering to their positions is anything but something you can tap yourself on the back for and tell yourself “well, I did what I could”.

Hallucinating. I don’t say pander to liberals, i say talk to them where they stand. Don’t call them social fascist when trying to agitate them towards socialism even if the term is correct.

Be normal.

And look, I’m not hating on Hasan as such. I don’t think he’s going around claiming he’s a leftist revolutionary, right? He’s doing whatever makes him money, and that’s cool, but let’s stop pretending he’s playing some long game for the ultimately victory of communism.

More hallucinations. Hasan doesn’t say he is playing some long game and neither does any of his fans. He educates and removes the reflex of the liberal to immediately shit themselves at the mention of socialism and moves people down the line that are ready to move down the line. Simple stuff, really.

Criticise hasan for what he does wrong and not for things that literally no one ever said.

He has endorsed them before they went hardcore off the rails and mamdani is getting critical support because he is the first time leftist ideas are even talked about in mainstream media.

How about you stop pretending as if we are in the times of lenin and that socialism is acceptable to even utter. Currently we are nothing.

Leftist ideas need to become acceptable first before we can even start thinking in terms if “social fascist”. Someone like bernie was important so that we can now have a mamdani so that we can have some actual moderate-radical socialist in the future. The next one after that, we can start talking about marxist-leninist and revolution again once we built up an actual base that can be convinced to stand behind socialist ideals.

Educating the masses should be top priority and people like bernie and mamdani are perfect for exactly that: palatable to the liberal because they are ineffective and allowed to speak because they bend the knee to the fascists eventually. You can use them to spread ideas and point to them to say that “you think they are radical? They still bend the knee and still didn’t help you. We need to be more radical than even that!”

I think that is the true value behind a mamdani. A trojan horse into the mind of the liberal.

I mean, last i checked you need to advocate for them in order to be a “VBNMW”. I don’t think he advocated for harris for example. I believe his position is usually that he doesn’t judge you if you vote or don’t vote and at least for last presidential election he also didn’t tell us who he voted for so he is not even influencing anyone by his choice.

I feel like him talking positively about a thing that a democrat said gets often misinterpreted as him advocating for that democrat full on.

In no way, shape, or form is Hasan a “vote blue no matter who” guy. Criticise him for something real 😭

I mean, considering that that sub is anti-platner, i will need to see what got you banned to make any judgement tbh. Also, they are currently taking a break from platner posting because the mods said

"This sub is taking a day off of Platnerposting. Platner is running in the democratic primary for senate in a state that has 1.5 million residents.

There is so much more significant events going on right now: ICE potentially raiding my friends and family, random boats getting bombed in the Caribbean, the ongoing deprivation of aid and genocide in Gaza, the unimpeded seizure of the West Bank by Israel, and a possible war for the sake of war against Venezuela. Whether Platner is a US senator in a year and a half is incredibly insignificant. Lock in. "

So maybe you posted about him too much for their liking?

Well, it doesn’t really happen. There are basically no cases of it happening and even in the original incident there was no “syndrome” or complex mental trauma that made the captives sympathise with their captors.

They just had sympathy for them because they (the captors and hostages) were not terrible people apparently.

Same thing is likely happening here. These people clearly look healthy and well fed so no torture or neglect took place and they finally had the “opportunity” to see the palestinians as humans instead of targets

As far as i know, Stockholm syndrome is not even an actual thing. I think these israelis just figured out that they are on the wrong side of history and what is going to likely happen to their captors by Israel

I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say “I used to watch Hasan and then started reading lenin and now here I am”. I have heard that with the deprogram, through the subreddit which was highly commie and encouraged people to look beyond.

I, on the otherhand, have heard it quite often. What i heard even more often is that Hasan is what led them towards second thought/deprogram in general, other left creators and then into actual theory.

So I can’t agree that he forms a pipeline, and telling his audience to read lenin does not make one if they are not going to read lenin but keep watching him instead. Socdems are not communist and have never been.

No one forms a pipeline alone. The pipeline is obviously not implied to be Hasan -> The State and Revolution as you seem to think. Hasan is the very first step towards radicalisation for many people including me and after him there were other content creators (german commies on youtube) and now i am getting into proper theory.

He is the streamer for libs that don’t even know what the word imperialism means. He is the streamer for the people that would get scared away if he were any more clear about his opinions.

I also think he gets a lot of leeway because he’s “on the left” that would not be afforded if he wasn’t so popular.

I don’t think people give him any leeway at all tbh. Every misstep or perceived misstep gets immediately put under a microscope by the left and then he gets called a socdem by some ultra-maoist or something.

Hasan doesn’t punch left, clearly leaves the door open and even encourages for people to go further down the pipeline.

How is it a “bad argument”? Are we supposed to ignore what John Stockwell whistleblowed about the CIA because “he was just a CIA officer” and wasn’t the head of the CIA or something?

The argument is “Even the CIA admits stalin is not a dictator” which is plain wrong because it is just some rando informant from the CIA saying it and not an official statement from them.

And what do you mean “subjective view”? Stalin was more a captain of a team, that is accurate about how socialist states function.

Because there are other informants that had the opposite subjective view…literally every view is subjective, that’s how “viewing” something works. I have made it quite clear that i don’t believe him to be a dictator.

Some things are narrative and some things are just correct or incorrect, no matter who is doing the telling. If someone goes to lengths to show you documents that contradict this document when you put it forth to people who take everything the CIA says at face value, that doesn’t make you look like an “idiot commie”, it further illustrates the contradictions in CIA messaging and the fallibility of the organization.

Internal documents are not “messaging”. They are internal and not messages to the public. Otherwise i agree, but you are missing the point because the “idiot commie” comes from believing this one document instead of all the other “better and more detailed” documents that do describe him as a dictator. From the view of your opponent and the onlookers you are just clinging on one shitty informant while ignoring all the counter “evidence” that the other informants provided. It is too easily defeated and this basically makes you lose instanly in the eyes of the public.

Arguing that it’s somehow not a contradiction and doesn’t represent them because “it’s a lower level dude” is itself a bad argument that reads more like arguing the side of anti-communists for them.

…that is because i am arguing the side of the anti-communists. Know your enemy and all that.

I am simply providing you the most basic of arguments that they would make and how this CIA document will immediately shatter upon it.

This isn’t about using things that are “wrong” in a vain attempt to be effectual. It’s about engaging with the mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance that a lot of people are enmeshed in.

By doing our own mental gymnastics and saying that this document proves that even the CIA believed stalin to not be a dictator? Because that is the only way this document has ever been used as.

This document is such a weak piece of evidence that it can only be used for bad faith arguments and nothing more.

I am of the opinion that we shouldn’t use bad arguments just because they might be effective.

It opens one self up to being corrected that the document is just a random goon that is reporting his own subjective view and then the opponent will link to a bunch of more “credible” CIA documents where they call stalin a dictator and suddenly the person you were trying to convert/argue against in order to convert onlookers is more entrenched because the idiot commie can’t even source correctly.

This document does not show the CIA’s thoughts at all. It is merely some lower level dude who is stating his findings which are at odds with others findings.

There are better CIA documents that show that even the liberal intelligence bastion has to admit that, for example, the nutrition and calorie levels of the USSR where on par or better than that of the US at the time.

So they conflated conflagerated and conflated? :b

https://hexbear.net/post/6309545

I don’t think this document proofs anything. There are more detailed and “credible” CIA documents that falsely claim him to be a dictator.

I also think this is playing into the narrative of the CIA being some kind of omniscient org that has their eyes everywhere and you can’t hide from it. AFAIK the CIA had a hard time piercing the veil and gather intelligence of the USSR and its inner workings.

In fact, i think they fell for their own propaganda like the old joke about a KGB and a CIA agent meeting.

“I have to admit, I’m always so impressed by Soviet propaganda. You really know how to get people worked up,” the CIA agent says.

“Thank you,” the KGB says. “We do our best but truly, it’s nothing compared to American propaganda. Your people believe everything your state media tells them.”

The CIA agent drops his drink in shock and disgust. “Thank you friend, but you must be confused… There’s no propaganda in America.”

Yeah i know what you mean, haha. That usually isn’t used in a hateful way though in my experience