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3 days agoThey vomited chalk/calcium carbonate from marine invertebrates.
The Octonaut
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Joined 2 years ago
Cake day: July 1st, 2023
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It’s certainly better than "Open"AI being completely closed and secretive with their models. But as people have discovered in the last 24 hours, DeepSeek is pretty strongly trained to be protective of the Chinese government policy on, uh, truth. If this was a truly Open Source model, someone could “fork” it and remake it without those limitations. That’s the spirit of “Open Source” even if the actual term “source” is a bit misapplied here.
As it is, without the original training data, an attempt to remake the model would have the issues DeepSeek themselves had with their “zero” release where it would frequently respond in a gibberish mix of English, Mandarin and programming code. They had to supply specific data to make it not do this, which we don’t have access to.
91·4 days agoNo, not every purchase is taxed, and not every purchase that is is taxed at the same rate.
These rates are set by individual countries (because “Europe”, lol) and can change year to year. For example Ireland doesn’t tax books, basic food staples, children’s clothes, medicines. Heating fuel is taxed but was set to a reduced rate during the cost of living crisis. Other countries will have different priorities.
VAT ensures that even those who have a large amount of wealth accumulated without “income” also contribute to society.
What’s a ‘rack’ precious?
A model isn’t an application. It doesn’t have source code. Any more than an image or a movie has source code to be “open”. That’s why OSI’s definition of an “open source” model is controversial in itself.
I know how LoRA works thanks. You still need the original model to use a LoRA. As mentioned, adding open stuff to closed stuff doesn’t make it open - that’s a principle applicable to pretty much anything software related.
You could use their training method on another dataset, but you’d be creating your own model at that point. You also wouldn’t get the same results - you can read in their article that their “zero” version would have made this possible but they found that it would often produce a gibberish mix of English, Mandarin and code. For R1 they adapted their pure “we’ll only give it feedback” efficiency training method to starting with a base dataset before feeding it more, a compromise to their plan but necessary and with the right dataset - great! It eliminated the gibberish.
Without that specific dataset - and this is what makes them a company not a research paper - you cannot recreate DeepSeek yourself (which would be open source) and you can’t guarantee that you would get anything near the same results (in which case why even relate it to thid model anymore). That’s why those are both important to the OSI who define Open Source in all regards as the principle of having all the information you need to recreate the software or asset locally from scratch. If it were truly Open Source by the way, that wouldn’t be the disaster you think it would be as then OpenAI could just literally use it themselves. Or not - that’s the difference between Open and Free I alluded to. It’s perfectly possible for something to be Open Source and require a license and a fee.
Anyway, it does sound like an exciting new model and I can’t wait to make it write smut.
I understand it completely in so much that it’s nonsensically irrelevant - the model is what you’re calling open source, and the model is not open source because the data set not published or recreateable. They can open source any training code they want - I genuinely haven’t even checked - but the model is not open source. Which is my point from about 20 comments ago. Unless you disagree with the OSI’s definition which is a valid and interesting opinion. If that’s the case you could have just said so. OSI are just of dudes. They have plenty of critics in the Free/Open communities. Hey they’re probably American too if you want to throw in some downfall of The West classic hits too!
If a troll is “not letting you pretend you have a clue what you’re talking about because you managed to get ollama to run a model locally and think it’s neat”, cool. Owning that. You could also just try owning that you think its neat. It is. It’s not an open source model though. You can run Meta’s model with the same level of privacy (offline) and with the same level of ability to adapt or recreate it (you can’t, you don’t have the full data set or steps to recreate it).
32·5 days agoI didn’t put any words in your mouth… I really don’t understand how you’re not getting that. I said you understand that it’s not true. Literally just read the part you quoted.
Actually none of what you said just now was untrue. The leap that is unexplained is that bringing back a Catholic monarch would turn the UK into a papal theocracy where no other Catholic kingdom was (except the Papal States!).
And that specifically is the part that I’m arguing has no basis in fact - you’re asking me to provide evidence that something wasn’t going to happen. Usually we ask for evidence of speculation, not against speculation. It doesn’t help that the people that could have said so were hung drawn and quartered, and the history written by people who immediately brought in further anti-Catholic legislation.
I genuinely don’t know how you interpret “I’m sure you understand the difference” as “you actually believe this”. But sure, I’m manipulating your mind.
The evidence - well, an argument, because this isn’t a paper - is exactly what you so helpfully brought up the Papal States for. Apart from literally his own domain, the pope did not turn any other nations into a Catholic theocracy because their monarch was Catholic.
It should be the other way around really - this idea of Catholic blind obedience to the pope is advanced as an assumption hy British historians despite having no example or evidence that it would be the case other than “that’s what Catholics are like” despite the Anglican church literally arising from a Catholic English monarch disobeying the pope.
I’m not accusing you of that (in fact I literally said that you understand its not that), but I’m guess you’re ignorant of how that is how it is taught in the British curriculum. The motif you’re talking about Alan Moore using - the Gunpowder plot and therefore Guy Fawkes wanting to replace the noble British monarchy with a foreign theocracy - relies entirely on that context. British history is carefully curated with “that was a foreign plot and the British nation bravely survived it” vs “a foreign ally saved and restored our glorious nation”. For many, the presence of Catholicism is one of the primary deciding factors in that.
Are you usually this unable to take criticism without insulting people? (Yes, daily)
I’m not ignorant of history. I’m on paper still a Catholic, since the Irish church decided to stop taking excommunication requests in 2005. Thanks for the Wikipedia article though.
Yes, very clever, the area the pope literally was sovereign of was under his control. I’m sure a clever guy like you understands the difference between that and the idea that literally any Catholic is 100% subservient to the Pope at all times regardless of their own rank and power, which is the sort of nonsense you’re usually railing against when it’s your flavour of old-timey god-stuff.
Tip though, and a bit of genuine sympathy here, when the UK continues down it’s path of right-wing bigotry and you feel your family isnt safe again, you are now in a Common Travel Area with a far more welcoming “Catholic” nation. Feel free to walk across the border unchecked and I promise I won’t you rat you out for describing a basic awareness of England’s anti-Catholic biases as a “need to be a victim”.
I take more than a minute on my replies Autocorrect Disaster. You asked for information and I treat your request as genuine because it just leads to more hilarity like you describing a model as “code”.
I ignored the bit you edited in after I replied? And you’re complaining about ignoring questions in general? Do you disagree with the OSI definition Yogsy? You feel ready for that question yet?
What on earth do you even mean “take a model and train it on thos open crawl to get a fully open model”? This sentence doesn’t even make sense. Never mind that that’s not how training a model works - let’s pretend it is. You understand that adding open source data to closed source data wouldn’t make the closed source data less closed source, right?.. Right?
Thank fuck you’re not paid real money for this Yiggly because they’d be looking for their dollars back
The most recent crawl is from December 15th
https://commoncrawl.org/blog/december-2024-crawl-archive-now-available
You don’t know, and can’t know, when DeepSeeker’s dataset is from. Thanks for proving my point.
Since you’re definitely asking this in good faith and not just downvoting and making nonsense sealion requests in an attempt to make me shut up, sure! Here’s three.
https://github.com/togethercomputer/RedPajama-Data
https://huggingface.co/datasets/legacy-datasets/wikipedia/tree/main/
Oh, and it’s not me demanding. It’s the OSI defining what an open source AI model is. I’m sure once you’ve asked all your questions you’ll circle back around to whether you disagree with their definition or not.
That’s the “prover” dataset, ie the evaluation dataset mentioned in the articles I linked you to. It’s for checking the output, it is not the training output.
It’s also 20mb, which is miniscule not just for a training dataset but even as what you seem to think is a “huge data file” in general.
You really need to stop digging and admit this is one more thing you have surface-level understanding of.
The Pope, who would ultimately have controlled the UK
There’s the anti-Catholic education paying off. Which countries did the pope control again? Why would the UK have been different from Spain, France or Italy? Why does being crowned by a pope or an archbishop differ? How, with apparent seriousness, are you defining the man who said this in parliament as a “secular head of state”:
The state of monarchy is the supremest thing upon earth, for kings are not only God’s lieutenants upon earth and sit upon God’s throne, but even by God himself, they are called gods. There be three principal [comparisons] that illustrate the state of monarchy: one taken out of the word of God, and the two other out of the grounds of policy and philosophy. In the Scriptures, kings are called gods, and so their power after a certain relation compared to the Divine power.
Even today British monarchs are ordained as kings with holy oil. It is not a secular position.
Mind-boggling that even young children don’t see through this blatant myth-building for what it is. The same scaremongering is used even today by regressive Orangemen about papish plots.
The data part. ie the very first part of the OSI’s definition.
It’s not available from their articles https://arxiv.org/html/2501.12948v1 https://arxiv.org/html/2401.02954v1
Nor on their github https://github.com/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-LLM
Note that the OSI only ask for transparency of what the dataset was - a name and the fee paid will do - not that full access to it to be free and Free.
It’s worth mentioning too that they’ve used the MIT license for the “code” included with the model (a few YAML files to feed it to software) but they have created their own unrecognised non-free license for the model itself. Why they having this misleading label on their github page would only be speculation.
Without making the dataset available then nobody can accurately recreate, modify or learn from the model they’ve released. This is the only sane definition of open source available for an LLM model since it is not in itself code with a “source”.
All that is true of Meta’s products too. It doesn’t make them open source.
Do you disagree with the OSI?
I’ve put hundreds or thousands of hours into every Civ game since Civ 2. I’m so fucking sad that I don’t care about this new release. I’m Irish and I can’t even enjoy Britain being relegated to DLC because somehow Ada Lovelace is a leader? Who is this game for?