Lol, the person who refuses to look at the data, accuses someone else to not look at the data despite evidently having no clue at all.

Yes, your self-awareness is impressive.

Point me to a single open-weight model on that list that isn’t a tiny toy model. Do it!

All of them.

LoL, the person who refuses to look at data, is accusing me of trolling them. Great success.

Yes.

They are open-weight, and I don’t see what being a toy model has to do with anything.

Many such cases. I see this all the time when it comes to genocide, or the DNC, or healthcare, or economics, etc.

People can be frustrating

…and are pretty aware of what is available and possible with them.

Yet, when presented with data that contradicts your point, you sure don’t seem to understand the basics of how they work.

But every time I point out the clear technical and moral issues with them…

Then why don’t you try doing that here? All you did was ignore data that was counter to your claim.

…that they clearly didn’t bother to even look into themselves and then ignores everything that contradicts their opinion and beliefs…

Oh, you mean like you just did? curiouser and couriouser

Suddenly?

They’ve been on the wrong side of history for a loooooooong time

Did you? Because based on the post timestamps, you spent literally 5 minutes looking at that list, which doesn’t seem like enough time to look through or test any of those models.

All of your responses here are either wrong, or keep side-stepping my points: Yes, LLMs can give sources, and often do. Yes, people do shitty things with LLMs, but how is that inherent to the LLM? Yes, LLMs don’t have a well-defined problem, and can’t do direct calculations, that’s not what they are for.

I still fail to see how any of that makes LLM’s inherently bad. The things you blame LLM’s for are social problems, or capitalism problems, or something similar. I don’t see you blaming other tools for the problems they create when they are mis-used.

So you admittedly didn’t even look at the models, nor their uses, but have determined that they don’t match your criteria?

If you aren’t going to accept a response just because you don’t like that it contradicts what you want to believe, I’m not going to waste my time engaging with you.

If LLMs were only made by apartheid supporing corporations, you might have a point. But many different people and groups create LLM’s for all kinds of things: Statistical analysis, generating stories and characters, coding assistance, design assistance, process assistance, language translation, rubber ducking, debate assistance, running D&D games and many more.

You want me to do a basic internet search for you?

Fine: https://www.fairlytrained.org/certified-models

First, we have skilled labor for a reason. Some people dedicated years of their life to perfect a skill or a trade, and they are trustworthy experts with experience in the matter. It would be unfair for those people if they got replaced by a sloppier version of themselves, after spending so much time and effort into their skills.

Is it “unfair” to bakers that I make my own bread at home with a bread machine? What about using a calculator? Or a dishwashing machine?

Second, AI was built on stolen labor. Even if you use a self hosted model, running on old hardware that was thrown away, using solar and wind energy, its usage is still morally wrong.

Well, it’s not all built on stolen labor. A lot of it is built on data that was given away freely. You also didn’t really provide a reason why it would still be morally wrong.

On top of that, even if the models are used locally (and even if they are tuned locally), the initial training happens on massive datacenters that consume lots of resources. And what you get isn’t the first attempt at making a model. For every successful model out there, thousands of other models were trained and abandoned.

They don’t have to use massive resources, we just choose to do them that way because of capitalism. Cities use massive amounts of resources, and many of them aren’t successfull on the first try. Should we stop building cities?

The rest of your post is more of a complaint about capitalism, and misunderstandings of how we choose to make AI models, not how they inherently have to be made.

How are they fundamentally fascist? They don’t exist for those purposes, but they can be used for those purposes.

That’s like saying “hammers exist to beat people’s heads in”. Yes, they can do that, but that’s not what they are meant for.

There are plenty of them that are not trained through non-consential scraping. Just because some of the people making AI models are assholes don’t mean everyone making AI models is an asshole.

… unlike LLM’s which are probabilistic and inefficient for in-place calculations, even disregarding accuracy.

Correct, although why you would want to use an LLM for in-place calculations is beyond me. That’s the wrong tool for the job. I also think using hammers on screws is a bad idea, but I don’t see how that makes hammers “a tool of the Epstein class”

Books are currently being destroyed in the process of developing LLM’s, I’ll assume you’ve heard the news so I’ll avoid preaching, but i may elaborate further if you’d like.

Sure, but that’s a capitalism problem, not an AI problem. Thats about artificial scarcity, not statistical probability calculations.

Algorithms are used to give deterministic correct answers, similar to heuristics which give likely-correct answers within specific constraints, both are instruction sets for computers, both are unlike LLM’s, which are black boxes, meaning there are no “bugs” ever by definition, and triaging problems boils down to understanding the (absurdly large) training data, avoiding that is the entire reason LLM’s were created to begin with.

Uh wut? There are absolutely bugs. I don’t know of anyone who has ever said that LLMs don’t have bugs.

the rest are not really that relevant, and I’m sure you can understand the point I’m trying to make.

No, actually I don’t. Please explain further

LLM’s form an incentive to not make connections with other people, to not rely on other people’s expertise, and sometimes to even doubt your own.

I could say the same thing about calculators, or waterwheels, or books. Do you think those things are “inherently hierarchical and anti-worker” ?

I’m not even giving this justice as these tools are trained to speak like a person, this has psychological implications, I’m sure you’ve heard the term “AI psychosis” before, this term may be medically dubious, but it does point at a real concern, this technology already isolates people, the vulnerable of us, and undermines expertise and community.

Yeah, a powerful tool used for evil goals is going to have an evil outcome. AI psychosis is not inherently a part of LLMs. That’s how they are specifically built in order to make people use them more. Once again, this is a problem with capitalism.

The way these models are trained, requires consuming (again, absurd) amounts of data, that can only be aquired via exploitation, alienation of labor from worker…

That’s not true at all. Many of them are trained on data that has been made freely available by the creator of the data.

…(as in no work gets properly credited, and that the LLM’s are used and marketed as a replacement for actual sources of knowledge and expertise)…

So, like books, and online videos, and comics, and articles, and blogs, etc? So do you think those are also “inherently hierarchical and anti-worker” ?

…and destruction of knowledge, as when you replace a source of knowledge, the people maintaining it may choose to stop doing so (via perceived obsolescence).

Again, wut? Do you think books are a destruction of knowledge because they replace scrolls, or direct conversations from the writer? I feel like I really don’t understand what you mean here.

Uh, what math? There are already good things coming out of it, so I’m not sure how math can show that.

Do you think calculators are a tool of the Epstein class? What about cars? What about books? What about televisions? What about power tools? What about algorithms? What about statistical analysis?

All of those things can be used for hierarchical and anti-worker actions. But I fail to see how those, or AI, are “inherently” hierarchical and anti-worker.

I’m drinking a lot less. I’m getting older, and it’s harder on my body.

Having access to weed and psychadelics helps, but also the alcohol-free-beers are much better than they used to be.

I still drink, but I fully support younger generations not drinking as a health choice. I suspect a lot of this is, unfortunately, not due to health concerns, but afordability.

Yup, it’s hard to justify supporting Lenovo, but work buys mine, so I’m not gonna complain too much about it.