Reddit refugee

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Joined 3 years ago
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Cake day: June 17th, 2023

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  • You’re getting into silly reductionism now.

    To an extent, but, it’s only silly because of where you draw the line compared to where someone else might.

    Going back to the ref results, the borders in general had some of the highest No votes. Border psychology is a fascinating thing, and what you usually see in countries with adversarial relationships is an increasing level of self-identification and expressed difference, rather than less. People in Hawick not wanting to lynch every bastard from Otterburn is - internationally speaking - a rarity.

    I guess my point overall is that Westminster absolutely need reform, FPTP needs to be fucked off, as do the Lords, and we need to move to a much more federalist system with substantial devolution. A Union of Equals would also mean that English regions get the same levels of devolution, and if we did that on population there would be 10 of those, plus Wales and NI.

    But I think we also need to seriously pay attention to the lessons we’ve learnt from Brexit. Barriers to trade are a fucking nightmare. As are trade negotiations. The majority of Scotland’s total trade is to rUK, much like how the UK’s trade was to EU. In a dynamic where you’re the smaller market exporting to a larger market, you’re in a weaker negotiating position. Political, maybe spiteful, reasons give the other block reasons to drag their feet. Disentangling laws over 50 years take forever, 400 even more so.

    I sincerely don’t believe that independence meaningfully improves Scotland’s position or abilities in the world. Let’s assume an independent Scotland is allowed to immediately rejoin the EU, by pretty much any measure it would be in the middle of the pack, around the same position as Slovakia, Bulgaria, Hungary, that sorta thing.

    Have a look at EU policy, what is decided, even with a more (but still pretty bad) proportional system, where money is spent, who has the most influence, etc, and I don’t see how that would be a meaningful improvement.

    But that’s just where I draw my particular line - give me a federal UK within a federal EU, and I’d be content.


  • Christ alive.

    I completely agree my home town is fucked, it’s part of the reason I left. My point re Barnett is that Holyrood gets additional money from Westminster for all the cash it spaffs in London, while the bit a few miles south of the border I now live in doesn’t and has all the same problems.

    I’m a massive supporter of devolution and local decision making, and a lot more powers - especially tax raising - do need to be devolved.

    Yes a lot has changed since 2014, but where you are drawing the lines on the map to decide whether something is ours or theirs is something to consider.

    It’s clear that you think an independent Scotland would benefit from oil wealth - I’d agree, if for no other reason than I can’t see Holyrood selling off the drilling rights to their executive mates in BP and Shell - but if the central belt votes for independence, and everywhere else doesn’t, but due to population distribution the overall vote is Yes…well, then what?

    Is that self determination?

    Or is the same madness we saw with brexit, of majority rule forcing everyone else to follow them?



  • Scots Independence is a nationalistic endevour, it’s pushed on an us and them basis with the usual strength and weakness contradictions and ahistorical myth making. This is the same for every independence movement that isn’t literally fighting against an invading force (eg Ukraine against Russia).

    Westminster is fucked, absolutely, and the current system does not work for anyone outside of south east England and London. But imagining that a unified Scotland even existed pre-1603 is something my Isles ancestors would dispute rather strongly, especially if insisted on by lowlanders.

    We should be proud of our history, there is nothing wrong with that, but pretending that there is any genuine factual case based in history, economics, political structure, or anything other than emotion, is foolish.