Hey m@tes, as y’all know, this instance has been anti-corporate GenAI positive since it’s creation and as such we’ve typically allowed such content to be posted freely. However in the last few weeks we’ve had a bunch of drama from GenAI haters who insist on coming into our comms and starting slap-fights. This caused us to vote on a new rule to have the mandate to clear out this constant friction. This worked to an extent, but I think we can help foster a better community with the larger threadiverse.

One issue a lot of anti-GenAI people keep bringing is that while they can block dedicated comms like !stable_diffusion_art@lemmy.dbzer0.com, they don’t have an easy option to avoid GenAI content in random other /0 comms as there’s no way to filter it out. This kind of content has been seen to cause a lot of strife, because people complain about its existence, while /0 admins and mods based on the above rule, tend to sanction those complaining. This then causes drama loops with /c/YPTB and /c/FuckAI etc.

There is a good point to be made here that while we don’t mind GenAI content in /0, there isn’t a reason to not help others avoid it. So we want to institute the following soft rule by now:

Simply tag your posts which consist of primarily GenAI content with the [GenAI] tag in their title. Not only will frontends like Tesseract will natively parse this as a tag and display it accordingly, but people who dislike such content, can simply filter it out of their feeds. Eventually lemmy will add tags which will make this tagging more seamless, but for now a manual tag in the title will suffice.

This rule only applies to posts in non-explicit GenAI comms. The assumption is that people can simply block those comms completely anyway.

As I said, this is a soft rule for now. Soft in the sense that you’re not going to be sanctioned for forgetting it, but we hope people will remind you to do so. This is a good-faith attempt by us to co-exist and help others avoid what they don’t want to stumble onto, much like [NSFW] tags. So I hope you’ll add do a good faith attempt to help us in this. Furthermore, people who come to posts tagged as GenAI explicitly to scold and start slap-fights, will give the admins and easier justification to clean up, since they could have just filtered out that content in the first place.

Cheers

  • ColdSideOfYourPillow@piefed.socialEnglish
    4·
    5 days ago

    IMO the problem is a lack of tags on Lemmy, which are often used as content warnings. With a robust tagging system, people would be able to filter out tags they dislike, such as genAI or politics.

  • Soapbox@lemmy.zipEnglish
    141·
    6 days ago

    As a genAI hater, I appreciate this. I already block the dedicated communities as I see them in /all. This is helpful to filter out more of the outliers if posters cooperate and actually use the tag. (I think alot of genAI zealots get off on trying to see if people will notice their posts are AI.)

    • xor@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      71·
      5 days ago

      genAi isn’t the problem, the zealots and fraudsters using it like that is the problem.

    • ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      2·
      5 days ago

      I was wondering why everyone just didn’t block the communities. Maybe their Lemmy clients do not have the option. I use Eternity and it works for me.

  • tal@lemmy.todayEnglish
    15·
    6 days ago

    Most AI image generators that generate images add EXIF metadata indicating that the image is AI-generated. This helps people who want to identify AI-generated images readily.

    In the case of ComfyUI, it even includes the entire workflow — like, another ComfyUI user can just grab the image, drop it onto their ComfyUI Web UI and they’ll be right where the generating user was.

    Unfortunately, EXIF metadata can contain location information — some cameras and such add it — and this metadata led to people posting images at places like Reddit being doxxed after they didn’t realize that they were posting their GPS location and maybe real name, stuff that some cameras attach. As a result, a number of image-hosting places simply strip all metadata, to prevent users from from accidentally leaking this information.

    Pict-rs, the software package that Lemmy hosts run to permit image uploads, does this. Unfortunately, it means that those “this is an AI-generated image” tags get stripped off.

    So, for example, on my system, with ComfyUI, using ImageMagick:

    $ identify -verbose output/ComfyUI_00312_.png

    “Properties:prompt” has a JSON encoding of the workflow.

    Sample images generated by various AI image generators are readily-available on civitai.com.

    For this generator that generated this image on civitai, it looks like the parameter is “Properties:parameters”.

    I believe that there are a small number of such tags today.

    It would be technically possible to just not have pict-rs strip that particular tag (or tags, if there are multiple that a given generator adds?) off, have a list of “AI-generated tags”, then have Lemmy add some visual indicator that an image is AI-generated. I’d suggest that this is probably a better longer-term route to indicate that an image is AI-generated than manually-tagging post titles, for a couple of reasons:

    • Spiders that index images on the Web will know that the image is AI-generated and can flag that for users and let them use that as a filtering criteria (e.g. Kagi Images permits for this). They aren’t going to understand tags in post titles, but the metadata tags are somewhat universal.

    • Doesn’t require manual effort if an image can have some indicator or flair or whatever put on it automatically. And I guarantee that some users are going to get this wrong just by accident, because different instances have different rules. Easier to change how a computer works than to change human behavior across-the-board.

    • Works on all instances.

    • The information remains attached to the image even if downloaded.

    • Works for images that aren’t just the subject of single-image posts and don’t have an associated title.

    • Speaking purely for myself, I kind of like the open-source, collaborative aspect of sharing the workflows or prompts, since it helps other users see how an image was created and learn from it; it’s something that I’m glad to see the generators include, and I’m kind of sad that we strip it off on the Threadiverse.

  • whalebiologist@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    303·
    7 days ago

    I like gen ai and I think this rule is a nice gesture towards the other side. It’s a good practice to cite your sources when you’re online anyhow.

  • hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    321·
    7 days ago

    I think this is a good addition. We shouldn’t alienate other like-minded people because of slight disagreements in my mind “minor shit” like this, and this seems like the least that can be done.

    Also, I believe this post should be tagged with [GenAi] because of the attached image? 😅

  • Eyedust@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    161·
    7 days ago

    I was wondering if you guys would catch the latest shitstorm on this. Definitely a necessary precaution. Its a good idea, and I hope it will be enough.

    Its getting to the point where people are blanket terming us as unhinged and blocking the whole instance because debates are getting heated. :(

    • Deceptichum@quokk.auEnglish
      254·
      7 days ago

      The anti-ai people are sending death threats and transphobic remarks to mods.

      They really need to step back and reassess their lives.

      • Eyedust@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        92·
        6 days ago

        Its getting heated on both sides from what I’ve seen floating around. I have to stand more with db0, because the other side just seems to be openly marketing hate-mongering. Which of course is going to bait a rise out of some here. We haven’t been going around slandering people who hate AI, but I’ve seen people going around openly slandering this instance for liking it. That’s what happens when you create a community solely based on the hate of a subject. Its just a breeding ground for negative energy.

        I’ve been on both sides. I’m not really cool with AI stealing art and prose to add onto their repertoire, but I have self-hosted LLMs and enjoy using them locally. There’s a place for AI, and unfortunately big corp is pushing an agenda that places AI in a horrible light, so its no wonder people hate it. That doesn’t mean that they should create a hate-based community, but hey, that’s a part of real freedom.

        On the other side of this coin, we have people here who stoke the flames by pre-banning people from communities they moderate in wild displays of power abuse, or joining in on fuck_ai to openly speak out in a community where they’re obviously not wanted and in general just taking a stick to the beehive. I’ve seen plenty on this side that disregard the rules and beliefs of anarchy, instigate arguments, and flout the premise of one of the ideas that db0 stands against- abuse of power.

        Like I said, I can’t blame some of them. Its hard to ignore some of the obvious slander that db0 gets sometimes, but it doesn’t mean we should openly validate them by getting hot around the collar about it. We shouldn’t take the high road, either. Pretentious high-horsing is just as bad as openly getting angry. Let AI-haters openly bash AI and try to understand that there is a vindicated reason for it. Its not us or even AI itself, its how AI is being marketed and used by big corp. We need to push that we don’t believe in that, the same as they don’t, without swinging bats at the first hater we come across.

        The best thing db0 can do right now is be respectful. I get it, we’re not exactly receiving that same respect sometimes, but stooping down to low levels of disrespect just based on the venom that spits out of an individual’s mouth is just not the answer. Whereas I don’t think this will get as bad as .ml or hexbear levels of hatred, I really don’t want us to be the next in that spotlight.

        Death threats and transphobia are just the cries of the few disgusting extremists. I agree that they need to stop immediately. I tend to dislike anything extremist. Their respective instances should be taking action against those individuals. If they don’t, I have no doubts that Lemmy will stand against them as a whole. Transphobia in general isn’t and shouldn’t be tolerated anywhere, and usually isn’t tolerated here at all.

        In the case of those individuals, I just see children throwing a tantrum and trying anything to scare or upset mods. That’s when slurs and scare tactics pop their ugly heads out of the grass, and they should be ashamed for just thinking those things, let alone acting on them. But that’s not instance vs. instance. That’s a handful of people in an instance being angry at a handful of people from another instance. There should be no reason to start a war of many based on the battle of a few.

        So I don’t disagree with you, but the context makes all the difference in the world. Its a very complicated and complex situation.

        tl;dr: This whole thing sucks, but at least we’re taking steps on our side to solve it.

      • Eyedust@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        10·
        6 days ago

        It’s going to take a while to do that now. People are all riled up right now and really should cool off a bit. I know what you mean, though, because this instance’s stance on AI is basically my stance on it.

        There are great applications for it, but the government and big corp are pushing it into a disgusting direction, as they do with everything they get their hands on that could give them power or money.

  • anar@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    143·
    7 days ago

    This is a hopefully a happy middle group that stops these stupid fights and makes people focus on bigger things.

  • Mystic Mushroom [Ze/Zir]@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    2614·
    7 days ago

    I think this is a nice gesture but I also think it’s way too charitable for the Anti-GenAI people currently complaining. Their issue isn’t that they want to avoid it, they want to stamp it out, they want it gone. They’re not going to hide posts or keywords, they’re going to brigade them. They already brigade and harass explicitly GenAI communities and don’t block them. They’ve harassed me multiple times, told me to die in DMs and even impersonated me for running such communities. Tagging isn’t going to help, they’re just going to use it to hunt down people who post it and brigade the posts or target the users, because they aren’t angry that they are seeing it, they’re angry that it exists and they wish to stamp it out, no matter the cost.

    In short this is a good solution with good intentions but it assumes a level of good faith that just isn’t there. I’d agree with this if the problem was really people just not wanting to see it, but the problem is much deeper. I’m sure that once people start doing it, the goal posts will be moved and they’ll just stop using “untagged” as a reason for complaining.

    • Universal Monk@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      142·
      7 days ago

      Their issue isn’t that they want to avoid it, they want to stamp it out, they want it gone

      Exactly this. These sorts of people don’t want to co-exist. They want to bully us out of existence.

      and even impersonated me for running such communities.

      Sorry you’ve had to go through that. I have been through that too (and still have it happen). So I know how frustrating it is. People on Lemmy can be super weird.

      I’m all for OP’s solution, but like you, I don’t it will solve much because of just how much people like to stir up drama. They won’t use those tags to block, they’ll use those tags to find and harrass.

    • Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      133·
      7 days ago

      I very much disagree. Insane people on the internet would not need a tag. If there is brigading - or if there is in fact a level of extremism as you suggest - tagging won’t make a difference there. The instance is still too small and genAI is too popular around here to imagine that they need any help finding posts.

      Tagging is a good faith effort to establish boundaries and maintain the good will of the fediverse toward this instance.

      In short this is a good solution with good intentions but it assumes a level of good faith that just isn’t there.

      I think - as is always the case with drama like this - there is plenty of good faith, it’s just hard to see beneath the small but impactful amount of bad faith.

    • Gold_E_Lox@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      4·
      7 days ago

      not to downplay these issues, the impersonation is fucked and weird. but i guess trolls gonna troll and whack-a-mole is the only solution…

      idk what else would you have in mind?

      • Mystic Mushroom [Ze/Zir]@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        103·
        7 days ago

        I think that the AI friendly nature of our instance needs to be clearly written in our instance sidebar (@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com and @Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com can help with that) which would help out since the instance sidebar is visible in all dbzer0 communities which are remote. It should probably also be included in the application prompt as a disclaimer, since I’m seeing a lot of dbzer0 people who signed up and are complaining about AI (guys what the fuck are you doing here on an AI instance if you hate AI).

        Also moderation, moderation is the only real way to deal with the Anti-AI brigading and trolling. Preventative moderation can also be used as well if things get bad enough and/or don’t improve.

        • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
          11·
          7 days ago

          We’re not an so Ai focused that we need it on the sidebar and the application instructions

        • Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          3·
          7 days ago

          Hasn’t the sidebar said this for awhile?

          Communities about Anarchism, Generative AI, Copylefts, Neurodivergence, Filesharing, and Free Software.

          • Mystic Mushroom [Ze/Zir]@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            51·
            7 days ago

            It has, but the rules section doesn’t clarify brigading Anti-AI or otherwise as one of the big no-no topics. We did vote on a change to the rules but it seems it wasn’t implemented yet. Maybe @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com or @Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com just hasn’t gotten around to it yet but it would help in terms of it being known that we mean business.

            This instance currently allows new community creation, however the following subjects are explicitly not allowed as communities.

            • Nothing positive or promoting cryptocurrency, blockchain or NFTs
            • Nothing extreme-right-wing. This includes conspiracy theories, SovCit, Pro-Police, AnCaps etc. We’ll know it when I see it, don’t test us!
            • No anti-science topics.
            • No Tankie shit.
            • No TERFs.
            • No Porn.

            Preferably you’ll stay within the topics endorsed by this instance (see first line)

  • Grimy@lemmy.world
    164·
    7 days ago

    It’s a good idea in spirit but the tags will mostly be used to brigade and not to filter in my opinion. Most apps dont even have the feature if I’m not mistaken.

      • Even_Adder@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        21·
        6 days ago

        It’s been going on for a while now on !lemmydirectory@lemmy.dbzer0.com. The sidebar even says:

        Our community has bots making regular posts showcasing best content from communities in given categories to help promote them. Each category is assigned to it’s own bot to allow users blocking posts from unwanted categories and tailor the feed for their preferences without the need to block the whole community. Here’s the current list of bot accounts:

        I’m not sure how much clearly marked posts are going to help the problem. I feel like the people browsing through all are targeting the content and won’t ever see the sidebar.

  • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    73·
    6 days ago

    People should do this for stuff they generated with llms too. Realistically English needs evidentials, like tenses that explain the source.

    Much unintentional disinformation would be cleared up if people stated the source. E.g. “I remember learning…” “Someone I trust told me…” “I heard an expert say…” “a statistical text generator emitted…” “a random internet comment said…”