I’ve always been curious how fascism takes hold, and how people like Hitler, Stalin. etc rise to power. Do people not see what is happening? Shouldn’t hindsight, foresight and common sense kick in at some point? I used t think they were like mob bosses early on - anyone disagreeing with them ends up in a barrel, but surely were civilized and educated by now?
It seems the people don’t want to jeopardize their comfortable livelihoods and individual lives so expect the ‘powerful elected officials’ to do their bidding. After all, the public gave them the power to do just that. Otoh, the politicians don’t want to jeopardize their cushy jobs and accumulated power by challenging the majority, so are waiting for the public to start a jan6 situation so they can point and say, ‘see, the people are unhappy so we should act’.
It’s a shitstorm of no consequences and a man child hacking away at the country and no one seems to be doing anything meaningful. I’m literally watching fascism take place.
History/ psychology/ sociology majors care to chime in?
Mismanagement and misplaced grievances.
The former is the cause for 99% of the problems societies face.
Essentially, conmen will con useful idiots, and then the useful idiots will get mad at their peers instead of their rulers because it’s easier.
Stupidity is also a major factor, because useful idiots aren’t capable of understanding how they’re being taken for a ride.
Fascist propaganda is highly effective, and no one is immune to propaganda. Humans are emotional creatures, prone to being whipped up into a frenzy. You identify a(n imaginary) threat, and offer a very simple solution to it. The logic of whether or not the solution sounds morally correct doesn’t matter because 1.) The problem is made up anyways and 2.) The propagandist is appealing to the id, not the superego.
Remember that thinking is the greatest threat to fascism, exercise your brain as often as possible.
It depends on blaming a minority group for problems that people face instead of addressing the problems. It’s the natural progression of a system that enables sycophants.
Wealth is finite, the amount of currency in existence is finite. The rich benefit at the expense of the poor, the poor benefit at the expense of the rich.
If a leader is benefitting from worsening the lives of the poor, and doesn’t want to change their goals, they need to distract the poor from the problems they need addressed. The most common way is to trick them into thinking an “expendible” minority is the cause, and the only solution is to erase them. This distraction also allows the leaders to further erode the rights of the poor in the process.
Until it all inevitably collapses, because a society where things only get worse for the vast majority are not sustainable
Wealth redistribution kills fascism
The amount of currency in existence is not finite lol.
It absolutely is finite, there is an economic theory that says wealth is theoretically infinite, but it’s theory, not reality.
It absolutely isn’t. Currency is printed all the time lol.
1 is a finite number
1+1 is a finite number
1+? Is a finite number, even if you don’t know what it is
If you look at the amount of currency at any given point in time you can absolutely track every debt and dollar to a number, the fact that that number is always changing does not stop it from being finite.
You’re really embarrassing yourself here
So in your opinion, infinite doesn’t exist? If you can keep printing money whenever you want, no, the amount of currency in existence is not finite. What is the limit of how much of a currency can be created? What is the limit of USD? If it’s finite then you should be able to answer.
You’re really embarrassing yourself here
Not me who’s doing that lol. You just said this lol…
1+? Is a finite number, even if you don’t know what it is
Is human population infinite too? More babies are made all the time, i don’t know if there’s a limit to how many can be born
Yes, because there is no definitive end number.
You’re acting like the definitions for these words don’t exist 🤣. The human population is currently x. The total possible human population is infinite because it has no definitive number that it hits and ends.
Go back to middle school math, where they teach you the difference between infinite numbers and finite numbers
Ah so now you’re pretending like you were talking about something different since you got corrected lol
As I’m sure many have already told you Stalin was not a Fascist. I’m not sure if you’re asking about fascists in specific and used a wrong example or about totalitarianism in general and used the wrong word.
For fascism in specific it’s usually about a common enemy and economic crisis that can be pinned on that enemy. But there are other stuff as well, there’s a great movie called “Die Welle” (The Wave) which is based on an actual scientific experiment called The Third Wave in which a teacher showed how fascism is able to take root.
For totalitarianism in general the answer is a lot more complex, each dictator grew to power their own way, but populism and fear mongering are common practices.
I asked about fascism in particular in the title, but certainly welcome input about other types of authoratarianism/ totalitarianism. It’s the psychology of how they slip though the public view and entrenches itself that I’m most interested in, because of what is happening around us atm.
During psychology class, we were taught about the authority figure dilemma, in that normal, decent people proceeded to inflict (acted) pain on another just because some person in a lab coat asked them to. Just trying to form my understanding from the myriad inputs, as to why the public and elected joes seem so unable/ unwilling to act.
I…. Love/Hate the fact that a lot of people complained that the ending of the book and the movie differed so much, and only few of those people actually understood the meaning of the book
…What book?
The wave / die Welle
That experiment got a book and a movie
Dude just look outside.
Edit: i used to have big long lectures about the psychology of it, or how it exists as a system. But now you can just look outside.
Yeah. Trying to put it all into sense, perhaps using the lessons of history as a guide.
Shit. Okay, ill type that up at some point when im the right amount of sober.
Bigotry, that’s how. People have problems, the economy is struggling. They need a scapegoat. So someone like Hitler or Trump convince them that all their problems are caused by jews or immigrants or LGBT people or some other minority group and that everything will be fixed by getting rid of that group
Why is the economy struggling while rich people live in luxury?
I’d say what’s causing people grief is a bigger trigger for fascism than how they react to it.
Or that all their problems are caused by and will be fixed by getting rid of all of the people who disagree with their ideologies and political allegiance. They call for censorship of those people, they try to get them de-platformed/fired and arrested for wrong-think, outlaw their ability to get any power, and they try to paint them as all sorts of horrible things and say that if you disagree then you’re also those horrible things.
Radicalisation, basically, and if you think it’s only one side doing it, you’re well on your way.
I agree.
This book has helped me understand:
https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/T/bo27509064.html
Any political extremism is propagated by providing easy answers to complex problems.
Yes, but along the way, we’d expect there to be questions and common civility perhaps being a guide. It’s not happening, so I’m wondering why the masses and leaders sit and do nothing while it unfolds.
My impression is that 1/3 of the population is always ready to accept tyranny. On that topic, I have a couple of other suggestions that are easier reads than Arendt, and specifically about the usa:
- Who Goes Nazi (a short, almost fun essay)
- Huey Long is sometimes considered America’s fascist governor.
Read through the parts of 1. that I was allowed to by the paywall. Fascinated at how different the characters are (reached F and a half). Will try to find the rest. Thanks!
1/3 kinda sounds about right. Some are finding the system isn’t working for them, and want a change, no matter how drastic. The other group wants to control the system for their needs.
there are many ways it can happen.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a5JgD8AhRjs
watch that and you’ll have a better idea to the answer you’re asking.
If you are up for a big, dense piece of 1950s social philosophy, Hannah Arendt’s “Origins of Totalitarianism” is a classic. It covers imperialism, racism, mob violence, antisemitism, propaganda, tolerance for lies, and the development of mythologies. It’s got a lot of ideas - many of which have been challenged. It’s also excessively wordy. One thing to keep in mind is that most of the components have been around for a long time – supremacist ideologies, conspiracy theories, propaganda systems.
Thanks. If anything, I have a lot of reading to catch up on!
If you’re seriously wondering then I’d highly recommend reading Daniel Guerrin’s Fascism and Big Business. And Antonio Gramsci’s Prison Notebook, particularly the section The Problem of Political Leadership in the Formation and Development of the Nation and the Modern State in Italy.
There are two things you’ll want to read to get an idea of how and why fascism happens. The first is the essay Ur-Fascism by Umberto Eco. The second is the free ebook The Authoritarians by Dr Bob Altemeyer.
Between these two, you get a clear, measurable definition of what it means to be fascist and an explanation of the psychologies behind it.
Billionaires / Bankers from USA and UK financed Hitler when he was in prison. Pretty much that’s how I see it. I’m just waiting now for modern idiots to finance next one.
I think you can read more here.
https://www.sott.net/article/298259-The-Americans-who-funded-Hitler-Nazis-German-economic-miracle-and-World-War-IIWe’re very near to this moment because the economic situation is similar.
Populism
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