I mean, I do agree that what Israel is currently doing is worse than what China is doing, but being less violent than an active war zone doesn’t really mean much when you’re both committing genocide. Absolutely unhinged opinion
As a largely unengaged Lemmy lurker, y’all need to take a chill pill, this feels like an excerpt of the red scare. Picking a fight with the anarchist techies because one dude has an opinion that’s not even unhinged, about something that most of us here cant even talk about with any certainty…come on.
This whole thing is actually overblown and misrepresented.
Picking a fight with the anarchist techies because one dude has an opinion
The ‘one dude’ is an admin.
that’s not even unhinged,
… downplaying the Uyghur genocide isn’t unhinged?
The ‘one dude’ is an admin.
Of a lemmy server, there’s no requirements to spin up an instance. Admin just means “person with the time.”
downplaying the Uyghur genocide isn’t unhinged
Comparing the cultural erasure/washing happening in Xianjing to what’s happening in Palestine is a tad disingenuous at best.
Of a lemmy server, there’s no requirements to spin up an instance. Admin just means “person with the time.”
Dbzer0 is one of the biggest instances on the Fediverse. It’s not some fucking rando. And even if it was, how the ever-loving fuck would that justify genocide denial?
Comparing the cultural erasure/washing happening in Xianjing to what’s happening in Palestine is a tad disingenuous at best.
The difference between the two is that the Palestinian genocide went ‘hot’ after Oct 7. But sure, let’s go with implying that it’s not a real genocide, and saying it’s overblown and misrepresented by ‘the West’.
Dbzer0 is one of the biggest instances on the Fediverse. It’s not some fucking rando.
I’m not sure how that’s relevant though, the admin is just another person with opinions but I’ll concede it’s a pretty big instance.
I still see HB and most of the .ml instances. It’s not that hard to see shit takes and just acknowledge it’s a shit take and move on.
The difference between the two is that the Palestinian genocide went ‘hot’ after Oct 7.
The biggest difference to me is my money isn’t going to exterminate the Uyghur population of Chinese provinces the way it’s being used to wipe Palestine off the map.
But sure let’s go with implying that two horrible situations are the same because I can only think in black and white terms. Nuance and subtlety are irrelevant as long as I can get internet points or something.
I’m not sure how that’s relevant though, the admin is just another person with opinions but I’ll concede it’s a pretty big instance.
I still see HB and most of the .ml instances. It’s not that hard to see shit takes and just acknowledge it’s a shit take and move on.
… other than acknowledging someone openly having a shit take simping for genocide, what do you think is being done here?
The biggest difference to me is my money isn’t going to exterminate the Uyghur population of Chinese provinces the way it’s being used to wipe Palestine off the map.
But sure let’s go with implying that two horrible situations are the same because I can only think in black and white terms. Nuance and subtlety are irrelevant as long as I can get internet points or something.
What the ever-loving fuck does that have to do with simping for genocide being bad?
Israel has been restricting access to food, water, and electricity in Gaza for many years. Long before Oct 7. Palestinians have been living in an open air prison for a long time. The IDF responds to peaceful protest by seeing how many kneecaps they can snipe. Settlers routinely descend on villages and just start burning shit to the ground. So no, it didn’t go “hot” after Oct 7th. You should really educate yourself on the subjects you’re talking about.
Palestinians have been living in an open air prison for a long time.
What the ever-loving fuck do you think Xinjiang is
So no, it didn’t go “hot” after Oct 7th.
Oh, my mistake, the current phase of the Palestinian genocide is completely indistinguishable in intensity from the prior phases of the Palestinian genocide, you’re absolutely right. /s
You should really educate yourself on the subjects you’re talking about.
How fucking ironic.
Hahaha wow you American liberals are quicker to anger than the conservatives at this point. Ya love to see it
Hahaha wow you American liberals are quicker to anger than the conservatives at this point. Ya love to see it
… what?
Why make two threads? Both are missing most of the convo. I don’t think what he is saying is right but he does clarify his position right after.
off-topic shill post:
if you’re using piefed, you can see all conversation across fedi for any crosspost, and comment on any of the individual posts from the same page.
Why make two threads?
Because each time something new and horrific was said? The two threads weren’t made at the same time, and I wasn’t aware that Unruffled was going to skip from ‘defending Uyghur genocide denial’ to ‘being an Uyghur genocide denier’ when I made the first one.
I don’t think what he is saying is right but he does clarify his position right after.
By ‘clarify’ you mean ‘directly contradict’?
If someone dismisses genocide, then, after being called out on it, half-assedly walks it back, which is the sincere position?
Fair enough but personally, I do think you should let things settle a bit before making threads on them. When I commented, I was under the impression you reposted because the other one got downvoted.
I agree on your impression of the whole of it though. Not sure why he had to put quotes around the word genocide for instance.
…yeah. I blocked that whole instance a week or two ago. c/Piracy just isn’t worth it. Also, never liked that Unruffled person all that much, and I really don’t like them after this "“It’s only genocide if I can blame the US - otherwise it’s just ‘Sparkling Crimes Against Humanity’” 🙄
you didn’t block that instance a couple weeks ago, because I banned you a few days ago for doing nothing but downvoting every single post in !libjerk@lemmy.dbzer0.com without ever commenting.
That’s a bannable offense?
it is when we think it’s funny.
That’s certainly… something.
predictable tankie behavior
it should be noted that the above account is an IDF propaganda account, so they absolutely do not consider the genocide in Gaza to be a genocide.
i will eat your note
Do you deny the genocide in Gaza?
Seems like it:
Oof. Out they go for genocide denialism.
Illogical arguments that assume that there’s some collective Western authority I.e. propaganda ministry that is at play here. Many individual journalists and historians have studied this topic. There’s nothing to deny here, even credible sources have confirmed that China accepts the existence of education camps.
Why do you guys keep pinging me?
Removed by mod
Got my first antiyank reply 🎊🎉🎉
This is the only time I’ve pinged you to my knowledge. I pinged you because, to my memory, you were anti-Uyghur genocide, and showed up in that thread.
Oh right. Goat had done the same, and I just assumed you were trying to goad me into arguing. Sorry about that.
In any case, I do disagree with them here, people can oppose both at once. The Gaza one is more urgent and severe though.
I believe the Uyghurs are oppressed by the CCP, but there is a lack of evidence that it’s a genocide specifically. Even the USA doesn’t say it’s a genocide anymore. Of course, this could just be because it doesn’t meet the definition of genocide, while still being a genocide. At the very least, there’s cultural erasure, which iirc would have been a part of the original definition of genocide if the USA and other countries didn’t veto that, to avoid being guilty of genocide themselves. The Xinjiang Police Files were leaked by Adrian Zenz, which is a questionable source at best (he’s a weird anti-communist). If any new evidence does come, I’ll change my opinions accordingly.
Reading this: https://wikipedia.org/wiki/gaza_genocide compared to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China.
Only slightly related, but seeing the word tankie being misused is getting a bit annoying, by the very definition of it, an Anarchist can’t be a tankie. Having a crap opinion on something like tankies doesn’t make someone one.
The Gaza one is more urgent and severe though.
I agree with this.
I believe the Uyghurs are oppressed by the CCP, but there is a lack of evidence that it’s a genocide specifically.
From your own linked wiki article:
In addition to mass detention, government policies have included forced labor and factory work,[6][7] suppression of Uyghur religious practices,[8] political indoctrination,[9] forced sterilization,[10] forced contraception,[11][12] and forced abortion.[13][14] An estimated 16,000 mosques have been razed or damaged,[3] and hundreds of thousands of children have been forcibly separated from their parents and sent to boarding schools.[15][16] Chinese government statistics reported that from 2015 to 2018, birth rates in the mostly Uyghur regions of Hotan and Kashgar fell by more than 60%.[10] In the same period, the birth rate of the whole country decreased by 9.7%
… what more evidence of genocide is needed? A written and signed statement by Xi Jinping himself that the purpose of this is the erasure of the Uyghur ethnicity and culture as a major demographic in the region?
Even the USA doesn’t say it’s a genocide anymore.
US department of state in 2024 disagrees
The Xinjiang Police Files were leaked by Adrian Zenz, which is a questionable source at best (he’s a weird anti-communist).
Focusing on Adrian Zenz is a common tankie talking point to attempt to muddle the waters, as Zenz is not a reliable source. The Uyghur genocide is much more widely documented than that despite PRC controls on investigation, including interfering with the attempts of a UN investigator to the region to gather evidence.
If any new evidence does come, I’ll change my opinions accordingly.
What ‘new evidence’ is needed?
Having a crap opinion on something like tankies doesn’t make someone one.
Playing apologist for tankies is not really all that much better than being one. Saying that simping for red fascist regimes as the ‘lesser evil’ doesn’t make one a tankie, as Unruffled said, denying the Uyghur genocide, and leaving Holodomor denialism up in a comm where other genocide denialism is removed is all very much tankie apologism.
I don’t think that Unruffled is, themselves, a tankie. But when you reach the point of denying and downplaying genocides, you’ve gone far beyond bias, and into outright apologism - in this case, tankie apologism.
You used to regard the Uyghur genocide as a genocide. That you’ve changed your mind on the matter is extremely troubling.
What stuff do you have that’s not related to zenz? I’m genuinely interested.
Search up “BBC Chinese reeducation camps” on YouTube. It’s hands on footage.
By the wiki article you linked alone:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/04/12/surviving-the-crackdown-in-xinjiang
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55973215
https://docs.uhrp.org/pdf/UHRP_report_Demolishing_Faith.pdf
Outlined in these sources are mass sterilization, mass deportation, sending Uyghur children with living Uyghur parents to Han Chinese guardians for ‘correction’, forced labor, torture, and cultural erasure - all of which rely on far more witnesses and evidence than Adrian Zenz, who was a loud and early voice, but is far from the only or even most important source for the genocide that tankies claim he is.
Scrolling through this, it doesn’t provide any sources bar “NGOs” (it doesn’t bother to name any) and vague estimates.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/04/12/surviving-the-crackdown-in-xinjiang
This isn’t loading for me at all.
This one says it’s an opinion formed by a legal group (doesn’t specify the legal group). It also doesn’t provide any proof that the forced sterilisations are happening, besides saying they are.
This cites Zenz and an APnews article, which in turn cites Zenz.
This mentions the UN report saying china is guilty of Human rights abuses (which I believe it is), but it doesn’t mention genocide at all.
This is long, and I don’t have the time to go through it all right now, but skimming it shows cultural erasure, which I believe is happening. It only mentions genocide once, when it says that cultural erasure is a part of China’s genocide.
I’m not trying to do genocide apologia here, but the evidence is inconclusive imo. It’s clear that they face Human Rights violations though.
Proudly got banned from this professional clowns (OP, not OOP) com LOL
Yes, you quite proudly simped for Russian imperialism and claimed that Ukraine wasn’t a ‘real’ country. I wouldn’t be suprised if you were a supporter of Uyghur genocide and the Holodomor as well. Fuck off, fascist.
