• PugJesus@lemmy.worldOPMEnglish
        22·
        11 days ago

        This is the only time I’ve pinged you to my knowledge. I pinged you because, to my memory, you were anti-Uyghur genocide, and showed up in that thread.

        • irelephant [he/him]@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          151·
          11 days ago

          Oh right. Goat had done the same, and I just assumed you were trying to goad me into arguing. Sorry about that.

          In any case, I do disagree with them here, people can oppose both at once. The Gaza one is more urgent and severe though.

          I believe the Uyghurs are oppressed by the CCP, but there is a lack of evidence that it’s a genocide specifically. Even the USA doesn’t say it’s a genocide anymore. Of course, this could just be because it doesn’t meet the definition of genocide, while still being a genocide. At the very least, there’s cultural erasure, which iirc would have been a part of the original definition of genocide if the USA and other countries didn’t veto that, to avoid being guilty of genocide themselves. The Xinjiang Police Files were leaked by Adrian Zenz, which is a questionable source at best (he’s a weird anti-communist). If any new evidence does come, I’ll change my opinions accordingly.

          Reading this: https://wikipedia.org/wiki/gaza_genocide compared to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China.

          Only slightly related, but seeing the word tankie being misused is getting a bit annoying, by the very definition of it, an Anarchist can’t be a tankie. Having a crap opinion on something like tankies doesn’t make someone one.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOPMEnglish
            33·
            11 days ago

            The Gaza one is more urgent and severe though.

            I agree with this.

            I believe the Uyghurs are oppressed by the CCP, but there is a lack of evidence that it’s a genocide specifically.

            From your own linked wiki article:

            In addition to mass detention, government policies have included forced labor and factory work,[6][7] suppression of Uyghur religious practices,[8] political indoctrination,[9] forced sterilization,[10] forced contraception,[11][12] and forced abortion.[13][14] An estimated 16,000 mosques have been razed or damaged,[3] and hundreds of thousands of children have been forcibly separated from their parents and sent to boarding schools.[15][16] Chinese government statistics reported that from 2015 to 2018, birth rates in the mostly Uyghur regions of Hotan and Kashgar fell by more than 60%.[10] In the same period, the birth rate of the whole country decreased by 9.7%

            … what more evidence of genocide is needed? A written and signed statement by Xi Jinping himself that the purpose of this is the erasure of the Uyghur ethnicity and culture as a major demographic in the region?

            Even the USA doesn’t say it’s a genocide anymore.

            US department of state in 2024 disagrees

            The Xinjiang Police Files were leaked by Adrian Zenz, which is a questionable source at best (he’s a weird anti-communist).

            Focusing on Adrian Zenz is a common tankie talking point to attempt to muddle the waters, as Zenz is not a reliable source. The Uyghur genocide is much more widely documented than that despite PRC controls on investigation, including interfering with the attempts of a UN investigator to the region to gather evidence.

            If any new evidence does come, I’ll change my opinions accordingly.

            What ‘new evidence’ is needed?

            Having a crap opinion on something like tankies doesn’t make someone one.

            Playing apologist for tankies is not really all that much better than being one. Saying that simping for red fascist regimes as the ‘lesser evil’ doesn’t make one a tankie, as Unruffled said, denying the Uyghur genocide, and leaving Holodomor denialism up in a comm where other genocide denialism is removed is all very much tankie apologism.

            I don’t think that Unruffled is, themselves, a tankie. But when you reach the point of denying and downplaying genocides, you’ve gone far beyond bias, and into outright apologism - in this case, tankie apologism.

            You used to regard the Uyghur genocide as a genocide. That you’ve changed your mind on the matter is extremely troubling.