• RedWizard [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netOP
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    1 day ago

    Honestly. This scenario liberals imagine, where there is some kind of red line that would cause a sitting governor to actively utilize the national guard against federal forces is pure idealism.

    The civil war was a social revolution born out of the contradictions between the slavery mode of production of the south and the rapidly growing capitalist mode of production of the north. The abolition of slavery meant more wage laborers for the north and the complete liquidation of debt leveraged “assets” for slavers in the south. This was the contradiction that drove the development of the Civil War.

    The wealth of the South was tied up in debt and assets. Land and Slaves, two things not easily made liquid. Increasing slave productivity would require massive investment in industrial machines from the North. While these machines would increase productivity they would be over saturated with labor as they wouldn’t have enough to reached equilibrium and couldn’t as easily offload the unproductive slaves that didn’t have machines to work. Their reserve army of labor would become depreciating assets who still require food, shelter, and medical care regardless of how shitty it was. The end of slavery would literally be the end of the slavers “way of life” their entire economic way of life would be obliterated unless the state compensated them fair market value for their slaves. Which, would be ridiculous right?

    The North, however, was rapidly industrializing and making effective use of the wage system. It didn’t matter to the capitalist if machines displaced workers. It was on the workers to feed, cloth, and house themselves. Petite Bourgeois business owners could exploit their workers by playing them tip only wages, since there was no minimum wage (the first state to have one wasn’t until 1912), leaving the burden of paying a workers wage to the patrons. This system was naturally far more effective at dealing with dead labor then slavery, since you didn’t own the worker, just the workers labor. This meant that the reserve army of labor of the north was effectively “free” to the capitalist and ultimately drove wages down as people competed for work. The capitalist never needed to consider if investing in machines would leave them with a population of unproductive workers, because they would just let them go, something the slaver couldn’t do because the slave was often collateral on loans.

    While there is always an inciting incident to point to at the onset of a conflict, these inciting incidents are formed by political and economic conditions that had been building to that moment. You can’t run a simulation where a governor chooses to use the guard against ICE and then say it’s similar to current events in a vacuum. You have to ask the question first, what are the economic conditions driving these actions? The country isn’t divided economically like during the Civil War. There isn’t dueling economic models that Walz could find himself aligning with one over the other.

    There are only two forces at play internally here in the US. Workers, and Capital. The people on the streets being killed by ICE are workers. The man killed today was a Union member. When Waltz deploys the National Guard, he doesn’t do it to push ICE out. He does it to put bodies between ICE and the workers doing their duty as legal observers, documenters, and citizen journalist. It obstructs them in those duties. He does it to support the police who actively work with ICE in their duties and have never been on the side of the workers. Tim Waltz is the same guy who sicked the cops and the guard on BLM protesters in 2020 in collaboration with the Trump administration. He’s a team player, and he’s not on our team.

    The reason he makes these messages on twitter, is not to stop the killings exactly. It’s because he knows that at some point the only next step is deploying the military. If that happens it will only escalate the resistance of the workers of Minneapolis. Instead of individuals carrying weapons for self defense you will have groups carrying weapons for group defense. When the monopoly of violence becomes challenged, all bets are off, and Tim Waltz knows it’s safer for him if ICE just leaves. The likelihood of that happening however seems low.

  • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
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    2 days ago

    Either the National Guard backs up local law enforcement to arrest ICE agents, or they target protesters and let ICE run rampant

    The fact Walz hasn’t called for arresting ICE agents means he’s siccing the National Guard on the protests

    • Red_October [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      2 days ago

      Yeah. That’s what the national guard did during the BLM protests. They were marching down neighborhood streets lighting up anyone who opened the door.

      What the fuck world do people live in where they think any part of the military/police will suddenly turn around and protect them?

      When they see the NG that Walz called in turn their guns on protesters to protect ICE, are finally gonna see the fucking shift in national awareness? Maybe that they’ve been forcefully mainlined fascist propaganda from every direction their entire lives?

      • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
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        2 days ago

        I think this moment is new, we got normies out there fedposting en masse over this state murder

        The Trump Reich is pushing too hard and the dems are caving to easily, it’s unravelling an already partly unravelled Kayfabe

        We could see some promising developments emerge in terms of mass radicalization

        • BanMeFromPosting [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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          17 hours ago

          They did the same in the summer of '20. The big difference is this is happening in the middle of winter I suppose, which could indicate things will only get wilder since it’s easier to participate when you aren’t at risk of freezing to death. On the other hand there’s also a bunch that’s different, so who’s to say. I still get 2020 vibes, though that only ended with the election, so… Its a big I dunno. I’m just jaded

        • UmbraVivi [he/him, she/her]@hexbear.net
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          2 days ago

          The radlibs in Sam Seder’s comment section are fedposting like crazy. These people were stanning Tim Walz last year and now they’re calling for every ICE agent to be hanged in the town square.

      • Horse {they/them}@lemmygrad.ml
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        2 days ago

        What the fuck world do people live in where they think any part of the military/police will suddenly turn around and protect them?

        surely the wehrmacht will protect us from the gestapo

        • average lib
      • Le_Wokisme [they/them, undecided]@hexbear.net
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        1 day ago

        What the fuck world do people live in where they think any part of the military/police will suddenly turn around and protect them?

        some cops would follow orders, but the democrats in charge aren’t going to give the order.

  • Alaskaball [comrade/them, any]@hexbear.netM
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    2 days ago

    Walz: I have activated the national guard in order to disperse protesters through any means necessary in order to stop ICE from needlessly endangering their lives while ganging up on domestic terrorists, as the use of firearms in close quarters may hit one of the brave men protecting our borders.

  • Inui [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    2 days ago

    He’s sending them mainly to the Whipple Building since that’s ICE HQ. It’s where the most intense counter protesting happens since the people going there know they’re going to be face to face with agents. Not sure what it looks like there on the ground after today.

  • sewer_rat_420 [he/him, any]@hexbear.net
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    1 day ago

    I think I heard that they were doing checkpoints around the city for “incendiaries”? But surely not ICE agents with military grade incendiaries, moreso random folks with firecrackers or whatever