Ahoy mateys!
A few of our users have recently pointed out that a lot of the pro-Zionist accounts on the fediverse nowadays seem to come from the feddit.org instance.
Feddit.org’s explanation for this situation seems to fit into a few common variations:
- They accept both pro- and anti-Zionist members, so it’s not proof of a bias.
- They [choose to] comply [in advance] with strict German / Swiss / Austrian laws regarding [overly broad] “antisemitic” language, or they might get in trouble.
- Calling for the destruction of Israel must obviously mean you want to kill every last man, woman and child, rather than simply wanting to overthrow Netanyahu’s genocidal fascist regime. Because [bad faith] reasons.
- Lots of Euros (and Germans specifically) are pro-Zionist, so they feel like they have to accommodate this view.
But whatever the excuse happens to be, they need to do better imo. Israel is currently the most violent, fascist and genocidal nation state in the Middle East (if you exclude the US military bases there). And yet feddit.org seems to regard the Palestinians fighting against Israel’s ongoing illegal occupation of their land as the real terrorists. As such, I am calling for feddit.org to:
- Explicitly prohibit pro-Zionist accounts from joining.
- Take measures to resolve their claimed legal issues, e.g., moving their server location to a less regulated jurisdiction, and ensuring that admin accounts remain anonymous regarding their location.
- Stop referring to folks who call for “Death to Israel” or similar as though they are the terrorists or violent extremists. The Zionist Israeli settlers, the murderous IDF rapists, and the entirety of the Israeli government are clearly the violent ethnostate extremists we should be worried about, not the Palestinians in Gaza who are fighting for their lives every single day against completely disproportionate levels of Zionist violence.
More context
Our instance already voted to ban pro-Zionist accounts (see https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/60585441 for reference) and the rule that was implemented is here: Golden Rule #8.
As further context, you can find relevant comments and discussion in this post by a banned feddit admin in MoG (that fact they chose to post in MoG is in itself quite telling), and this post about their defederation from quokk.au over anti-semitism allegations has recently become active again.
I’ve also pulled out some choice morsels from the modlog to illustrate the sort of thing we are talking about:
This one says it all… mrdown@lemmy.world being banned for calling out feddit.org users for being Zionist apologists. It’s apparently “xenophobic” to state a few hard truths.
If you have had similar experiences on feddit.org, please feel free to share in the comments.
Voting instructions
I am proposing to ban the following communities from feddit.org, which seem to be the most problematic communities in terms of hosting pro-Zionist posts/comments:
- https://feddit.org/c/YUROP
- https://feddit.org/c/europe
- https://feddit.org/c/buyfromeu
- https://feddit.org/c/europa
- https://feddit.org/c/dach
- https://feddit.org/c/deutschland
- https://feddit.org/c/germany
Upvote this post if you want dbzer0 / anarchist nexus to ban these communities.
Downvote this post if you’d prefer not to ban these communities.
Note 1: Votes from external instances do not count, unless one of our admins has vouched for you.
Note 2: If you think feddit.org deserves a full instance ban instead, or have alternative suggestions, then please leave your comments below. If enough people think that’s the better option, then we’ll do that instead.
Note 3: Although I don’t really expect this to happen, if feddit.org agrees to make policy changes to address these issues then we are willing to reassess the situation.
Acknowledged governance topic opened by https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/u/flatworm7591
This is a simple majority vote. The current tally is as follows:
- For: (5),
(1), 
(1), 
(7), (1) - Against:
- Local Community: +0.4
- Outsider sentiment: Supportive
- Total: +10.4
- Percentage: 75.00%
This vote will complete in 1 days
@Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com I think the bot might be frozen, it’s had issues updating the time remaining and percentage throughout the vote.
Oh I’ll get someone to give it a kick.
- For:
513 posts
We couldn’t make it to a nice round number, no.
I find it extremely unreasonable that strictly anti-zionist grad is defederated, while feddit.org with its pro-zionist administration (not just some users) has to deal only with half-measures like defederation of a few communities. And i’m not advocating against defederation from grad (since this wasn’t an arbitrary decision of db0 admins but the result of the governance vote), i’m advocating for total, instance level defederation from feddit.org.
If this defed happens, I unfortunately have to migrate to another instance, as basically all of the German communities are on there. As a German I enjoy c/ich_iel and other communites on there a lot.
Can someone please explain why say feddit.org/c/europe is on this list?
I might just not get it, I hate zionists and fachos like you all, but the sub seems just to be very europe centred? Is it a general problem with feddit.org?
I mean I haven’t cast my vote because I don’t feel like I understand things well enough, as I said, fuck fachos & zionists, but I don’t see traces of them there? What am I missing?
Have not been here a long time so I’m not familiar with the present day drama but I am the founder of !europe@lemmy.dbzer0.com and was here when that drama was going on. And for that alone I think de-federation or at the very least banning these problem communities is the right call.
I am in agreement with others that the examples here aren’t great, some of these do look like aggressive trolling or very aggressive. And if I saw it in my community I would probably remove those too (though I might not ban the people, at least not permanently). Of course I would ban the Zionist apologists completely, and I have in the past in my communities, and its clear feddit isn’t doing that. I’m not saying that people are wrong to feel that way, I feel the same way about this bullshit (why I started a Europe community on here), I just do understand why some of those comments were removed. That doesn’t apply to all of them though and some were undeniably removed in defense of Zionist apologia.
I hope I don’t come across like I’m saying Feddit is right to do what they did, because I don’t think that at all. I think their actions are disgraceful and I think they were disgraceful back then too. They might be even more so now since if I’m reading right these were done by an admin this time.
At the risk of being banned this instance is starting to get annoying with the amount of political keyboard warrioring posts. I thought this was supposed to be a pro piracy anarchist community.
For self proclaimed anarchists there sure is a lot of desire to censor and dictate what opinions everyone is allowed to see.
For fucks sake if you are that bothered by a handful of users just block those individuals. Not all of us have a panic attack when we see an idiot spouting nonsense we don’t agree with.
- Ban users you don’t want commenting in your instance, as you don’t need to host their crap.
- Don’t treat your own users like children and let them decide what they want to read, where they want to comment, who they want to talk to.
I farted
Shared a meme about the whole situation in Fediverse Memes but apparently it stung a nerve somewhere (can’t imagine why), so, 'm sharing it here. Might make a post in another adequate meme channel later if I find one.
I never encountered Zionist trolls. Are they really that common? But I enjoy ich_iel so after a defet, I might use a different account more often.
“you should be lined up against a wall and shot”
“Kill yourself”
It blows my mind how this type of speech is being used by the op as proof that they’re on the right side of things. This is so wack that some part of me wants to believe this is some kind of social experiment to find out how far you can push people on social media until they push back against the echo chamber.
But I doubt it is. It seems more likely that this mod is leveraging his position to instrumentalize this community and shape it after his own vision of political activism. All under a laughable guise of democracy. Every single vote on this instance has been presented in a biased and manipulative way that leaves no doubt what the outcome “should” be. How very democratic of you. Slow clap.
Hey, unruffled: your attempts at social engineering and radicalization are ham-fisted and painful to watch.
I initially joined db0 because it seemed like one of the more heterogenous communities on Lemmy. That there was no clear label that comes with the db0 tag like “the tankie” (hexbear) or “the normie” (world). That it had the shortest list of defederations in comparison with the other bigger instances.
Over the past few months this has changed. There has been a shift towards echo chamber, armchair revolution and increasingly more hateful language. Give it three more votes and you’ll be voting in favor of roasting babies on a stick. Because free Palestine, or Zionism, or something. SMH.
I don’t like being told what to think about a certain topic. Even when that view aligns with my own. And before the mob frothing at the mouth charges at me - yes I’m German and yes, free Palestine and down with Israel (preferably with not a single additional life lost).
For all instance members reading this:
“Don’t worry you’ll get the wall”
Do you want to be associated with people who unironically spout this type of hatred? I don’t. Bye, db0
I farted
Thanks for a write up that fully reflects my view on the situation. Posted this a few times: everything single topic on here gets immediately politicized - and there’s only one truth on 0db nowadays.
Yeah you nailed it. There’s been quite a few votes with quite a few vocal people that are just not it. I left sh.itjust.works to come here because the vibe shifted on a similar trajectory. I’ve been donating to this instance monthly since I joined, but I’m close to pulling the fucking plug on it.
Sayonara.
Sick burn bro. Never said I’d leave anyway, just that I’d stop donating so don’t know why you’re saying bye.
You realize that acting like a child doesn’t really help anyone take you seriously right?
Oh I’m sorry, I got the impression you were done with us, since you said you left sh.itjust.works for similar reasons.
I’m done engaging with you that’s for sure.
likewise.
Dude why are you still replying to me? What’s wrong with you?
Edit - Rhetorical questions, stop talking to me.
To hell with civility politics. The outrage is the mass slaughter of innocent people, not some unpleasant language on the internet. It’s not surprising that people hate evil bastards.
I agree, this is the number one reason I have grown to really hate liberals and liberal apologists. When the issue is human lives you don’t get to argue about someone being less than polite. Human lives are more important than the feelings of whiny liberals. Especially whiny Zionist liberals (who are often the ones invoking respectability politics to silence anti-Zionists and antifascists).
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With all due respect, shut the fuck up Zionist apologist!
Hehe butts
Two things can be at once. For example, outage over crimes against humanity and civil discussion with strangers.
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I don’t consider being mean to genociders as “being shitty”, I consider it righteous.
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Calling for the destruction of Israel must obviously mean you want to kill every last man, woman and child, rather than simply wanting to overthrow Netanyahu’s genocidal fascist regime.
They complain of users being misinterpreted, but when those users use deliberately inflammatory language elsewhere, it’s not a stretch for a moderator to then interpret messages like ‘death to Israel’ as calling for further violence—implicitly against civilians—and taking action based on it. Supporting the genocide against Palestine is wrong, but so is calling for retributory violence against Israeli civilians, explicitly or implicitly. Their moderation problematically confuses anti-Zionism and antisemitism at times, but it’s not an action they should be blocked or defederated over.
but so is calling for retributory violence
It’s called self-defense. You have a right to defend yourself when attacked, even Israhell agrees with that. They just maliciously misinterpret what “defend” and “attacked” means.
Guy from the “evil zionist instance” here. Yeah no, this strong radical language should not be rationalized as something constructive. db0 mods shouldn’t meddle in the moderation of feddit from what I can see is clearly language that turns the discussion bad faith. There’s space for constructive discussion but pretty much none of the examples shown here are.
That’s not what people are all that concerned about. Have you heard of the one Nazi walks into a bar analogy? Same thing applies with feddit.
Same thing applies with feddit.
that would imply that no antifascists should be allowed to enter the bar bc there are some nazis in there, and the bar will stay operational.
unless ur suggesting the feddit mods need to ban zionists whenever they appear, in which case, i agree.
Some even vote them into and tolerate them remaining in office I hear.
Aren’t we all complex human beings at the end of the day? Oh and of course ceterum censeo Carthagine esse delendam.
Yeah sure, the folks opposing genocide are spreading hatred against those who implicitly or explicitly support it. Makes total sense 🤔
“I shot your dog but it’s ok because I’m against genocide”
Same thing.
are u saying that these are mutually exclusive? that ppl who oppose genocide can do no wrong?
im not necessarily against insulting fascists, but i dont think its particularly effective at anything but escalating tensions. can be good at making ppl feel shame for expressing such beliefs, but that doesnt always have to be the case
I’m immediately skeptical of people who advocate for civility politics because it is one of if not the number one liberal excuse to silence dissenting views when you are wrong.
Hey, unruffled: your attempts at social engineering and radicalization are ham-fisted and painful to watch.
Yeah don’t bad-jacket db0 users, @Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com made this post to bring awareness on a real issue this instance is facing at the hands of communities on a liberal Zionist instance filled with Zionist liberals. They are using respectability politics and bad-jacketing to silence anti-Zionists and antifascists which is not okay by our standards.
If you don’t like that then you should get out, you obviously didn’t understand what you were signing up for when you registered here. We’re leftist anarchists, not liberals.
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Bye, don’t let the door slap your ass.
You’re losing and you know it
This is not a game
It’s a war
I’ve got a few thoughts on this.
First, its insane to me that someone could read the rules and decide anti-zionist is anti-semitic. That is either someone who doesn’t understand words and has no interest in learning them, or is someone actively zionist (and supports genocide, thus the issue with zionism).
Second, I’ve got my complaints about what I’m seeing from the flotilla/friendly instances.
- Someone saying “Fuck off you piece of trash” getting banned from a community is in no way a surprise.
- The same goes for “You’ll get the wall”
- Same for “kys”
- Same for calling someone a Nazi for what I assume is a supportive comment about the war in Ukraine. Just to note, don’t bother trying to respond to me with anything about Russia being in the right on this one. I’ll just block.
Third, there are quite a few comments there that are completely appropriate (support for Israel is support for genocide, etc), the thread about quokk.au is utterly nonsensical to me, as are the discussions in MoG (which shouldn’t really be a surprise).
To sum up my thoughts… At no point do I regret voting in support of rule 8. I am really disappointed by some of the comments I’m seeing being used as support for de-federating though, some of those are just disgusting.
Overall, I’m in support of dropping the comms due to the blatant zionist posts that go on there.
Edit: formatting fuckup, and a whole word.
Just yesterday I had an odd interaction with an .ml user who reposted a straight-up nazi tweet, by a nazi profile, even with their own thread title resembling a frequent nazi dogwhistle. Several non-.ml users, apparently mostly from feddit, pointed out the post looks like it was posted by a nazi. .ml users responded in part by attacking their instance allegiance (calling them “whingy fedditers”). Since I posted enough clear evidence of the Twitter profile being a fascist, OP commendably deleted their thread.
What I saw there is feddit users being met with a hate boner from .ml and their correct suspicions of a tweet that looks antisemitic indeed being antisemitic being ignored and made light of.
That’s my personal experience with feddit and its zionism, and consequently I’ve ended up suspicious of some of Lemmy users’ standards regarding this whole matter.
The examples of feddit moderation posted here in OP are almost entirely sanctions against grave personal attacks. I am completely unconvinced that this is proof of the moderators’ zionist positions. “Fuck you, you piece of trash” and “fuck you and your whole family” is not “a few hard truths”. I’m also unsure if I get the context right, is mrdown a Palestinian? Many of those comments break the most elementary civility standards and verge into murderous fantasies.
Calling for the destruction of Israel must obviously mean you want to kill every last man, woman and child, rather than simply wanting to overthrow Netanyahu’s genocidal fascist regime.
Then say it like that? No, destroying a country is not the same as overthrowing its regime, those are different things. I support the latter with regards to Israel, but would hardly dare say the former.
This post was supposed to convince me feddit’s behaviour is problematic. I come away with the opposite impression. So, I vote against the bans.
Passing Zionism and Israel as representing the Jewish People is the most anti-semitic thing there is because the actions of that ideology and that nation are some of the most depraved imaginable: portraying Zionism and Isreal as representing the Jewish People is the logical equivalent of claiming that the commiting of Genocide (including explicitly targetting children) and even participating in the running of a pedophile ring (the Epstein one, which Mossad supported) are “Jewish things”.
Meanwhile there are the more traditional kinds of anti-semitism which do not taint all Jewish people by conflating them as a group with depraved ideologies and nations and instead just directly slander Jewish People for being Jewish.
And this bring us to your post: you’re saying that we should overlook the actions of the first kind of anti-semite, by claiming that in us doing otherwise would weaken efforts against the second kind of anti-semite.
Your claim is the very opposite of logic: it is the first kind of anti-semite who are strengthening the messaging of the second kind (for example, under the [IMHO false] axiom that Israel is the same as The Jewish People, then the Mossad’s involvement in the Epstein child-sex ring leads to the mathematically logical conclusion that Jews are pedophiles or at least supporters of pedophilia) because the second kind can leverage the depraved Israeli and Zionist actions and the link to the Jewish People claimed by the first kind to slander all Jews.
Because of this connection between these two kinds of anti-semites, in reality those fighting the former kind of anti-semite weaken the second whilst those protecting the former strengthen the latter.
And this bring us to feddit.org being filled to the brim with the first kind of anti-semite and activelly protecting them from criticism.
you’re saying that we should overlook the actions of the first kind of anti-semite, by claiming that in us doing otherwise would weaken efforts against the second kind of anti-semite
No, i’m not saying that. I described what I saw and what I roughly concluded. What you’re ascribing to me is far beyond my current considerations.
So why did you feel the need to talk about the latter kind of anti-semitism in a discussion about the former?
As I pointed out, by fighting the former we are in fact weakening the latter by denying them the empowering of their “arguments” that they get from the former kind of anti-semitism, so if you worry about the latter kind of anti-semitism, it was being indirectly addressed by the demands being made by the OP.
Surely it would’ve made more sense for you to support what the OP is trying to do rather than go “whatabout”.
THANK YOU!! we have to call hate where we see it as it is. failure to do so only lets it fester and spread, making the world worse for everyone. bigotry of any kind is a threat to everyone, including people who think themselves safe from the bigotry they don’t see. we have to recognize not only that zionism is antisemitic, but that antisemitism masquerading as antizionism is zionist.
to reiterate something i said elsewhere, the fediverse at large is in a good place and is self governing well. but that doesn’t mean racial hate isn’t on the rise in our self managed spaces. we must continue to work to encourage tolerance, and part of that is telling bigots they’re not welcome.
zionism is bigotry. it is not just harmful to palestinians, it is harmful to everyone, including the people who mistakenly think it’s a form of anti-bigotry
https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2025/05/30/poll-israelis-expel-palestinians-gaza-genocide/
But it is most Israeli Jews. 80% want full expulsion, 50% want complete genocide.
yes, Zionists. not all Jews are “Israeli”, not all Jews are Zionists, but most “Israelis” are Zionists, and almost all Zionists are Jews or Christians (mostly Christians!).
Zionism ≠ Judaism
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American Jews
yeah, SStateSSians do be like that. and 82% of Evangelicals are also Zionists, which is nearly thrice the global population of Jewish people.
convenient that there are little to no numbers outside of either the US or “Israel” breaking down support for “Israel”. you’re also citing a Zionist source.
Most Christians are not also zionists, that is actually a small group, unlike Jews.
citation fucking needed. oh i see, you misread the part where i said most Zionists are Christians.
You defending feddit.org against for their clear examples of Zionism really drives home what I already suspected.
I’m going to repeat it here: there was nothing wrong with the Tweet itself and there’s no relation to any dogwhistling. I have solely deleted it because it was posted by a neo-Nazi account, as you pointed out to me.
All of the feddit.org criticism came from “Israel = Jews and therefore making a generalizing claim about Israelis = antisemitic”.
Here’s the Tweet without the neo-Nazi’s handle for reference.
there was nothing wrong with the Tweet itself
If you deny all of the context and the intent behind it, sure.
there’s no relation to any dogwhistling
To deny even accidental resemblance of your title with a fascist dogwhistle is flat‐eartherism that I won’t waste time arguing against.
All of the feddit.org criticism came from “Israel = Jews and therefore making a generalizing claim about Israelis = antisemitic”.
No, the criticism came from noticing the fascist dogwhistle (even if accidental) in line with the typical fascist format of the tweet. The meaning of the phrase/dogwhistle was problematised by at least one commenter before me, so you’re lying on that count.
No, the criticism came from noticing the fascist dogwhistle (even if accidental) in line with the typical fascist format of the tweet. The meaning of the phrase/dogwhistle was problematised by at least one commenter before me, so you’re lying on that count.
If you’re talking about TrickDacy that’s a known Zionist.
You didn’t have to defend Feddit Zionism here because it’s unrelated to my post. Yet you did, so it’s obvious what your angle is now.
Can we put this debate about an obvious misunderstanding to rest already? I believe @antonim@lemmy.dbzer0.com acknowledges that it was accidental. I don’t think they have any malicious intent. And I don’t think they think you have any either.
Since I posted enough clear evidence of the Twitter profile being a fascist, OP commendably deleted their thread.
The whole point of antisemites hiding behind antizionism is to make antizionism sound antisemitic. You accidentally posted a fascists tweet. You used a very common phrase that became a somewhat obscure meme among fascists. This triggered a false positive alarm. You deleted the post because it was giving off bad vibes (and you won’t see me break a lance for the fedditors reaction to that, it was wayyy off base) and antonim correctly identified it as a false positive alarm.
(edit: sorry about all the “You” sentences in the previous paragraph i don’t mean be accusatory)
Their main post is about what they perceive as a knee-jerk reaction to fedditors, to which I would say it’s not out of nowhere and I’ve posted at length about it in a reply to them.
That’s my personal experience with feddit and its zionism, and consequently I’ve ended up suspicious of some of Lemmy users’ standards regarding this whole matter.
They’re not suspicous of you but why some lemmy users were ready to throw down with the fedditors so eagerly over what antonim perceived as a very clearly objectionable post.
This post isn’t specifically about my post though, it’s about feddit.org in general and contains many examples.
My own ban from feddit.org (which isn’t included in this post) was for calling out lying Zionists that Palestine protesters “engaged in destruction of property and therefore the Nazi German government had the right to use violence against them”, which was a complete Zionist fabrication.
This post isn’t specifically about my post though,
right, but it’s kind of what this comment chain seems to have devolved to. Idk, maybe I’m off base or misunderstanding something, I’m having a hard time with words today it feels like, forgot my meds as well apparently lol.
For some reason they felt the need to keep bringing up my post, a common theme with people who do ad-hominems for a certain cause.
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Not commenting on the rest, but the Tweet itself doesn’t show anything genocidal.
It does clearly show that the current CEO of Discord is attempting to clearly identify Discord users and that the Israeli govt might have a hand in it, as they could be a potential buyer of the data.the Tweet itself doesn’t show anything genocidal.
Nobody said it’s genocidal.
Have you ever been to 4chan?
Nobody said it’s genocidal.
a straight-up nazi tweet
Maybe I have the wrong definition of “Nazi”?
Have you ever been to 4chan?
Maybe. I don’t remember if I did.
Maybe I have the wrong definition of “Nazi”?
Nazis aren’t defined or recognised just by open calls for genocide. Building suspicion of and hatred of Jews is also a commonplace activity.
Maybe. I don’t remember if I did.
That makes sense, because if you did the tweet would be a red flag.
Israel influencing a ceo to shut down anti occupation voices is pro genocide
shut down anti occupation voices
To know that, I would have to know that there are anti-occupation voices on Discord.
And maybe I would also have to be using Discord.But I didn’t press “Accept”.
Also, a tweet reporting that someone is doing something pro-genocide, doesn’t make the tweet pro-genocide.
I don’t know how any self-respecting leftist who isn’t a Zionist or Zionist apologist could look at a comment like Emopunker’s and think this isn’t Neoliberal Zionist apologia. Take your whataboutism elsewhere please.
Edit: No links, screenshots, or modlog info on the subject at hand. For all we know this story about a fascist ml user could be made up to apologize for Feddit. Fuck off dude.
So OP posted a dozen examples, and you think they’re not sufficient by themselves, and instead have to bring up an another screenshot? That’s just solidifying my point.
What definition of zionism do you work with?
What is “whataboutism” here anyway? I’m talking about how people perceive and judge feddit users’ comments, which has veered into blanket dismissal of their comments even when objectively justified. That’s why I brought up the situation.
Edit: No links, screenshots, or modlog info on the subject at hand. For all we know this story about a fascist ml user could be made up to apologize for Feddit. Fuck off dude.
Well fuck you too, asshole, have you considered asking me for the links and screenshots before telling me to fuck off? I didn’t post them originally because they weren’t crucial to my observations. Aren’t my own comments still visible on my profile, couldn’t you just check there? There will be nothing in the modlog because the user deleted the thread themselves. But here are the screenshots of my own replies and two replies that I still have in my notifications, as the rest is now unavailable:
The OP posted a screenshot of the fascist antisemitic tweet that was also posted to 4chan’s /pol/ with a similar caption, you can see it there in the archive that I linked. The title of the Lemmy thread was “Every time”.
You can set notifications to see all of them
I was part of that thread your speaking about and regarding the hate boner against feddit_org, I can only speak for myself obviously.
I joined the lemmy-verse via the now defunct feddit_de (now feddit_org) due to the reddit apicalypse. The shit I’ve seen on there was vile. Not just the zionism but for example a ML comrade made repeated attempts at reaching out, he tried to build a comm and they took his reconciliatory measure of co-modding it and wrecked the comm and bullied him till he just deleted his account. The tone policing was incredible, no one is allowed to get angry or emotional, no matter how offensive something is. I think it was this fatshaming thread that got me boiling over and decide to throw caution and good-faith into the wind. (You can see it live, I’m branchial on there).
The casual racism against muslims (and if a fedditor comes in here saying “muslims aren’t a race” so help me god) was standard for germans but seeing it spelled out it’s somehow more galling. Or the fact that this is coming from what passes in this cursed country for a left. Maybe both. “Imported antisemitism”, “CDU is right for wanting to ban headscarves”, “Mosques are used by foreign governments to subvert our democracy and therefore they should be under heavy surveillance” are some of the discussions I had there years ago of the top of my head.
This was around the start of the west waking up to piSSrahell’s evil and every anti-pissraeli talking point got put under a microscope while hasbara got a pass because the good newspapers were repeating it verbatim. Stuff like “nooo pissrael wouldn’t bomb hospitals, that was clearly a hamas rocket misfiring” (it wasn’t), the “mass rape” hoax is still being repeated by fedditors! The nova festival massacre is being blamed on “khhhamas” &c. you get the picture.
And in the past couple years I have never had a fedditor make me question my resolve to not bother with a good faith counter. They are so “aware” of antisemitism that they don’t see their islamophobia.
Their ignorance is only rivaled by their arrogance. They are consistently the most “let me explain to you how the world works sweaty” stereotypical westerner that is marinated in imperialist propaganda but somehow thinks everyone else is getting a distorted picture despite now years of evidence of our media being in lockstep with the US state department. All of them will repeat the same lies in unison but most damning of all is the collective silence on the uncomfortable truths. But somehow the fedditors don’t think this is an issue with their “free” press.
This is not true of every single individula yadda yadda but a @feddit.org behind a username is a damn good predictor of it.
With no proper segue let me also give my thoughts on the topic of antisemitism in antizionism. I belive we need to be very charitable with antizionist comrades particularly in international spaces. We can’t expect an arab to know anything about western nazi’s dogwhistles. They might retweet or like a tweet by “PepeLover1488” completely unironically, I don’t know the .ml poster in questions background but I’ve seen them around enough to know that they aren’t an antisemite. And so a fedditor “already knowing” that said poster is an antisemite and playing coy with how they know this is not going to be interpreted charitably. Westerners are projecting their many centuries of antisemitism onto arabs who just don’t have that past. It’s not the arabs fault their oppressors are jewish and asking them to be mindful of that is like pointing at the armenian genocide and asking some colonial country to be mindful of their oppressors christian faith. Zionism is a jewish supremacist movement, and any “fuck the jews” coming from a non-european has to be interpreted like “fuck the christians” from a queer person or indigenous person who is oppressed by the christian supremacist movements (and anyone trying to link them by talking about “judeochristian values” should get the wall). Here is a much better explanation of what I’m talking about.
Wonderful comment and unironical truth nuke.
Also wir_iel was a tragic development 😔
thank you and yeah it was rip to the comrade you taught me a valuable lesson about trusting anti-comms on the left.
So OP posted a dozen examples, and you think they’re not sufficient by themselves, and instead have to bring up an another screenshot? That’s just solidifying my point.
You are expected to provide some proof of your claims as it would not be the first time Zionist apologists have come here making up stories to apologize for the Zionist behavior of mods or admins. Thank you for providing some screenshots at least. @Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com Can you see the post this commenter is referencing?
Please understand, after seeing a Feddit admin outright provide neoliberal talking points justifying the occupation of palestine, as well as neoliberal justifications for silencing anti-Zionists and antifascists under the guise of “complying with german law” I don’t have a lot of patience for ““skeptics”” like you, who might actually mean well or who might be Zionist apologists acting in bad faith. It’s impossible to tell
It is clear you don’t have a very full or complete picture of the Feddit situation because our users have quite a bit of experience with Feddit users and their administration banning anti-Zionist and antifascist views either citing a flawed definition of antisemitism, or using liberal respectability politics. This includes an admin of Feddit coming here to argue with a user justifying their Zionist positions as “Just complying with German Law” and then whining when another instance admin elsewhere banned them for that.
If you think respectability politics is important even when it comes to human lives, you will find very little agreement here. If you think Feddit being critical of real antisemitism means they have a point when dismissing anti-Zionists as antisemitic bigots, you will again find very little agreement here. You really shouldn’t expect people to feel warm towards your dismissive sentiment because it is the sentiment that leads to bad actors like Feddit’s admins being dismissed as “misguided” or “well meaning” while perpetrating harmful ideology and suppressing the criticism that highlights that.
You are expected to provide some proof of your claims
Are we on Wikipedia or in the court, perhaps? No, this is just a forum. You only had to ask and I would post the screenshots. It is quite obvious why I didn’t post them initially (if the thread was still up I’d have linked it) - they’re large and would probably detract from the point, like I’m still arguing with the guy from .ml instead of talking about a somewhat different matter here.
It is clear you don’t have a very full or complete picture of the Feddit situation
I’ve read the OP text and some of the comments. So you’re effectively agreeing that all of this still doesn’t provide a very full picture. Apparently I had to interact with Feddit users elsewhere enough to come to your conclusions. But I didn’t, so the reasonable thing to do for me for now is to stay by my vote “against”, because I can’t make conclusions based on things I don’t know about.
I said what I saw and how I made my conclusions based on that. I asked you for your definition of zionism, to try to figure out what exactly is the problem with the screenshot you posted and to understand your viewpoint better in general, but you haven’t provided it yet. It seems you’re expecting me to read minds and/or spontaneously agree with you even while you’re insulting me. I can’t do that.
If you think Feddit being critical of real antisemitism means they have a point when dismissing anti-Zionists as antisemitic bigots, you will again find very little agreement here.
And that’s reasonable, those are two different things indeed, and I hope I haven’t conflated them.
Are we on Wikipedia or in the court, perhaps?
You are expected, not required. This is just a forum, discussing a serious issue.
You’ve got nothing
Comments in your example:
- Emopunker’s: no, it doesn’t look like any kind of apologia in itself. Unless I go around looking for the discussion they are referring to, this only tells me that they were talking to a fanatic.
- goat’s:
- P1 (paragraph 1) and P2 seem dubious at best, but then again, I haven’t checked out the link in P2.
- P3: seems to make sense. Although I don’t like using the word “antisemetism” due to how it mostly is used
- P4: seems like that might be the most well-put statement in the thread (which I haven’t read) and Emopunker’s statements don’t contradict this statement.
- P5: This question and the corresponding answer neither make me think of the 2 as a Zionist nor as an apologist.
The guy said he want ice to kidnap me and defended genocide joe. He accused me of being a nazi and pro trump when i said that trump is also a genocidal maniac. So yeah fuck him and his whole family
Murderous fantasies? None of those insults allude to murdering people
anti-zionist jew here. my observation has been that i see the most true anti-semitism coming from .ml, hexbear (when i venture out to see what’s going on there) and .zip. i see the most zionism coming from .world, sh.itjust.works, and feddit. and both sides seem dead set on saying for jews what it is to be jewish.
the most concering to me is how many supposed palestine supporters repeat the hasbara talking point that palestinians are arabian. this is ethnographically and historically incorrect. palestinians are indigenous to the levant. the jewish relationship to the land is far more complicated with most diasporadic teachers emphasizing that our role in the world and in the diaspora is to listen to and hear the workers of the world and teach them the organizational techniques that have worked for us. in essence, if there is to be a jewish presence in the levant it needs to work the opposite of how israel is doing it. land management will have by needs changed since last we were there, and we should treat the palestinians, who have been there all along, as our respected cousins and teachers. we have not been part of that land for 1700 years now. many of the foods that are seen as quintessentially jewish are eastern european in origin.
anyway.
yes.
there’s so much antisemitism in the fediverse masquerading as antizionism. there’s a lot more genuine good antizionism, and there’s also more zionism than antisemitism (though zionism is itself an antisemitic world view), but the people spouting the antisemitism always do so with a veneer of how what they’re saying is about anti-imperialism, most often from accounts who are less anti-imperial and more campist
antisemitism on the fediverse is extremely rare and you’re simply conflating anti-Zionism with antisemitism
Edit: removed part of comment because I’m not sure what their instance is like
k. i’ve reported some instances to your admins that they’ve agreed with and removed. i’ve only ever made one report where i found out i had to adjust my attitude because i’d internalized a falsehood.
just because you don’t see something doesn’t mean it isn’t there. it means you’re not attuned to it or it’s getting removed before you worry about it.
I might have to retract my previous statement because I’m not sure what your instance is federated with, but at least on .ml and the instances we see antisemitism is certainly not frequent at all. Other forms of discrimination are much more common.
not trying to say it’s more common than any other forms of bigotry. even said that in the comment you were replying to. just that it has been on the rise. thankfully some of the worst offenders recently recieved lifetime instance bans, though i presume they’ll be back under new usernames
the most concering to me is how many supposed palestine supporters repeat the hasbara talking point that palestinians are arabian
Got any concreate example because I follow daily Palestinians discussion on lemmy. I never saw anybody saying Palestinians are Arab
anti-zionist jew here. my observation has been that i see the most true anti-semitism coming from .ml, hexbear (when i venture out to see what’s going on there) and .zip. i see the most zionism coming from .world, sh.itjust.works, and feddit.
It is so sad to see pro Russia anti Israel people . People can read the Wikipedia page about Israel and Russia relation the relation is basically two loving couple with occasional fights like any couple.
There is many content that is spot on on Palestine but still defend Russian invasion of Ukraine. So I have to not post it.
ow israel is doing it. land management will have by needs changed since last we were there, and we should treat the palestinians, who have b
Shameless plug. I create this community where both zionists and tankis can spread their propaganda https://piefed.social/c/apologiafreenews
Got any concreate example because I follow daily Palestinians discussion on lemmy. I never saw anybody saying Palestinians are Arab
https://slrpnk.net/post/28551182/18481907
So we’re clear. Generally speaking, this user has his head on right about this specific conflict. But in this particular comment they are accidentally advancing something that Israel wants you to believe about Palestinians
I agree. Many Palestinians simply are descendent of ethnic jews that was converted to Islam and was Arabized since when Arab took control of the land there was no major mass expulsion of jews
mmm don’t feel comfortable with putting it this way. before ~300 when the romans cracked down on religious minorities it’d be more accurate to say that Palestinians and Jews were two groups of Canaanites with a high degree of cultural interplay. yes there are a lot of modern day Palestinians descended from Canaanites who identified as Jewish, but to say the primary culture they descended from was Jewish is another form of de-idigenization.
for what it’s worth, my family is from a region of Europe that is today part of Ukraine. the way I’d describe my relationship to Ukrainians and Palestinians is we are all cousins, brothers, and sisters divided by centuries of trauma. part of why i despise Israel is they want to take my connections to my people away from me and dictate to me who i am and how i should feel about them. they want me to hate and fear Palestinians and Ukrainians because i don’t live on Levantine or Galician soil anymore. but the songs i’ve inherited and the foods i eat speak a story of kinship and friendship, and a familial promise to meet again and share the foods and songs we still share as well as the new ones we’ve learned.
Zionism wants me to reject the connections my mother, her mother, her mother’s mother, going back thousands of years worked to maintain and sustain across famine, genocide, and oppression. But still, it would be wrong for me to say that Palestinians are of me or that i am of Ukraine. this would be to disrespect all of our identities in our shared struggle to find the freedom we once, long ago, worked together to fight for
mmm don’t feel comfortable with putting it this way. before ~300 when the romans cracked down on religious minorities it’d be more accurate to say that Palestinians and Jews were two groups of Canaanites with a high degree of cultural interplay. yes there are a lot of modern day Palestinians descended from Canaanites who identified as Jewish, but to say the primary culture they descended from was Jewish is another form of de-idigenization.
I see the distinction you’re making about Canaanite roots, and I agree. But I think what I’m trying to get at goes even deeper than a general ‘common ancestry.’
I didn’t mean to generalize . When I mention that many Palestinians are descendants of Jews who stayed, converted, and became Arabized, I’m pointing to a direct, unbroken link. It’s not just that we are ‘cousins’ from a distant Canaanite tribe; it’s that in some cases, we are the same family that over time developed distinct identity characteristics. I think it is an even better framing against Zionists.
Acknowledging that some Jews became Palestinians through history isn’t meant to erase their unique identity today, but to highlight that our roots are so intertwined they are often one and the same.
our roots are so intertwined they are often one and the same.
this I can absolutely get behind and is what I was driving at, too, just from a different angle.
Other anti-zionist jew here, not sure I get where you’re coming from here. I haven’t gotten any trouble from Hexbear for being Jewish and whenever there’s significant question over whether something is anti-zionist or anti-semetic, it usually causes a sitewide discussion. A few months ago there’s was an extensive conversation over whether or not it was acceptable to use an emote of burning the Israeli flag because it has the Star of David on it. I’m not super active of .ml so I’m not sure about there but Hexbear takes antisemitism seriously.
I agree the mods are using antisemitism as a bit of a blanket power for abuse, but this whole post just sounds like personal beef.
Their rules look reasonable and most of their mod logs look acceptable. Some of the removed comments are over the top hate.
I never see these posts in my feed but I would disagree with this ban.
Most of the mod logs shared in this post are about the social contract of tolerance, that Nazis/Zionists have broken that contract, and that they don’t deserve empathy for their views and instead deserve punishment. Many Nazis/Zionists advocate for the deaths of Palestinians, Jews, third worlders, and the like. Those people should expect to receive what they dish out. We have to be OK with bullying the bullies, and recognize the real victims.
That being said, direct calls for suicide individually rather than general statements about capital punishment for a group of people based on their specific political views is bad form. That mod log was deserved.
These mod logs though, imo, all paint the picture that these Feddit.org mods play victim while shouting for genocide, ethnic cleansing, and apartheid. Doesn’t really sound like personal beef. Sounds like the right action to take to prevent these communities from growing.
Yeah honestly the amount of apologia happening towards feddit in this thread is just an example of why defederation from them is justified and necessary for the health of our instance. Feddit and their moderation philosophy are antithetical to a lot of what we stand for as an anarchist leftist instance. And their actions are having a negative influence on morale here considering people are willing to apologize for them. This means either their influence is changing hearts and minds here in a bad way, or connection with them is making our instance appealing to all the wrong people. Either way it’s really not good.
I also love how acvusing someone of sucking cock is automatically homophobic. Obviously only men have those and only men do that.
accusing someone of sucking cock
accusing
‘bad thing is when sex act involving penis’. is there not a better way of phrasing it without hitting people who do sex act involving penis?
i for one am pretty fucking sick of people stooping to sexual violence metaphors and ‘bad man gay lol’ instead of using their fucking words.
Oral sex is pretty one sided, and fellatio in particular is pretty hard on the throat. It’s an apt metaphor, if you’ve ever tried it.
“Hamas are the only ones fighting your fascist regime” is a plain statement of fact and not over the top in any way. Removing that comment for “terrorism support” and “calling for murder” means that the mods believe it’s wrong to resist occupation (and that they’re probably racist too).
Removed by mod
By that logic, Native Americans were terrorists for killing white settlers, as were the resistance fighters in the Algerian War.
No, killing genocidal colonizers as a last resort is not terrorism. Colonizers are not civilians in the traditional sense, and all Israeli adults are required to serve in the IDF. Hamas is kind to its captives.
The PFLP works with Hamas. White liberals who have never had to experience a tenth of the brutality that Palestinians face are the ones who condemn Hamas.
By that logic, Native Americans were terrorists for killing white settlers, as were the resistance fighters in the Algerian War.
Many liberals unironically agree with this
Mods removing my comment for calling Hamas a terrorist organization os ridiculous.
If the stance of this federation is otherwise and you have issue with other communities stating the obvious, you may as well defederate everywhere. I can’t think of a single other community where this is the norm.
You can make the argument that Palestinians have no other options and therefore terrorism is acceptable, but you still need the self awareness that this is not general consensus.
Banning every community that disagrees with you on this will only leave you on a deserted island.
I actually went and checked out the proposed communities to ban. It’s all just regular euro news and posts on the front pages. No pro-Israel posts or comments anywhere.
If you feel that the mods banning comments like “Destruction to Israel” or “Hamas is not a terrorist group” is pro-Israel, I don’t know what to tell you. You either want to join other communities or you don’t. This is starting to look like what the vote is really about.
You know what’s ridiculous? Designating Hamas as a terrorist organisation. All that does is make it illegal for people to work with the civil government of Gaza.
And so if you’re an expert from a country that does that wanting to provide aid to some of the most vulnerable people on earth, you now have to go through with this ridiculous charade of totally not working with the local government in any capacity.
Because if you do, well, then you’re aiding a designated terrorist organisation, and that would be bad. Very bad. You’re helping them do terrorist medicine at the terrorist hospital, or terrorist water treatment at the terrorist water treatment plant after all.
It’s utterly obscene.
I can’t think of a single other community where this is the norm.
Then you’re unobservant AND a fool. Many of the most active instances on lemmy are leftist, including at least nominally the one you’re on. Leftists recognize Hamas as the organization that most directly fights for the liberation of Palestinians and is composed of Palestinians fighting for the lives of their families and their people against an entity that is doing everything it can to eradicate them from the planet, Hamas are the primary force preventing the completion of the genocide being perpetrated on them. Actual leftists give full uncritical support to Hamas as they should and as everyone should who cares about humanity. If you think this is just a fringe view, either your head is in the sand and you’re surrounded entirely by zionists and exclusively read zionist news (stop poisoning your brain with only western media propaganda.) or your head is up your ass and you are a zionist, a bigot, and a genocide supporter, though I guess I’m being redundant because zionism is those things by definition.
Hamas is not a terrorist group. Period. Israel must be destroyed (just as Nazi Germany needed to be destroyed and was, so don’t try to pretend that means the same thing as “all people in Germany must be killed” the way bad faith dipshits pretend that’s what people mean when they call for the destruction of the genocidal settler colonial state of
.)Humor me and point me at the instances which openly support Hamas. I didn’t think this instance was one until this thread and I am not on-board with that.
You are conflating leftists with being Pro-Hamas and that is categorically untrue. “Actual leftist” is a no true Scotsman argument. Pro Palestine is not Pro Hamas and in most cases those in the former go out of their way to explicitly state this.
Israel must be destroyed (just as Nazi Germany needed to be destroyed and was, so don’t try to pretend that means the same thing as “all people in Germany must be killed”
Note you had to specify Nazi Germany needed to be destroyed and not Germany. So don’t pretend that Israel must be destroyed is a good faith statement here.
Humor me and point me at the instances which openly support Hamas.
Hexbear, Lemmygrad, and Lemmy.ml. Hexbear has five Hamas emojis:
Most Palestinians support Hamas. Even the Palestinians who prefer another form of government to Hamas still support Hamas’s direct actions. Watch this Palestinian declare “The Qassam Brigades are the pride of Gaza”.
Note you had to specify Nazi Germany needed to be destroyed and not Germany. So don’t pretend that Israel must be destroyed is a good faith statement here.
Israel is Nazi Palestine. There is no non-Nazi version of Israel. Destroying Nazi Germany to restore Germany is the same as destroying Israel to restore Palestine.
deleted by creator
I stand with my palestinian comrades at the PFLP and they stand with Hamas.
Being accused of being antisemitism is a serious allegation that can make you lose your job
