Say a friend is looking for a new system, and said person is not particularly savvy with technology, what system would you point them toward?
At this point genuinely linux. For everyday shit like browsing, mailing, whatever, for sure.
Apple is just… Apple. I guess. Windows is an ad.
Linux is the new “it just works”.
i just erased windows 11 and replaced it with Linux Mint Cinnamon- not easy for me as I haven’t used anything but apple ecosystem since forever, but I’m extremely happy with it, and the upgrade in privacy is worth it to me even if it weren’t an excellent OS, which it definitely is. you just have to be willing to learn new things
The amount of people who spend thousands of dollars on MacBooks to just open up Safari makes me want to believe the average person could just have a ThinkPad with Mint or regular Ubuntu and be just fine. But the reality is if you run into a solvable issue on Windows or a MacBook, usually the degrees of separation from someone (friend or family member) who can solve that issue is much, much, much lower. I just seriously doubt most people can conduct the bare minimum of troubleshooting to be able to even search the internet for easy solutions. Can people learn? Absolutely! Are they going to go through the trouble? Probably not.
But who knows, as personal computing becomes more expensive and system requirements stop people from updating. Maybe more people look to Linux as an alternative and perhaps we’ll reach a critical mass where my previous statement doesn’t matter.
thousands? the browse-the-net macbook air is $999
They all suck in their own unique ways, and I use them all, so I feel uniquely qualified to say that.
To be honest, I’m ready for the hate, but about 90% of the people I know looking for a recommendation are not the type of people for whom any flavor of Linux is well-suited. Apple is too much of a closed system and likes to do things its own way in contrary to everybody else, forcing users down their one and only path of truth regardless of whether it makes sense to do so even though it’s completely different/opposite of nearly all best practices, which makes them a hard sell. Plus, they lost me with the “it just works” when they in fact do not “just work”. So, just to make my life easier, I usually find myself suggesting people stick with Windows. I hate it, but it saves me time and sanity in the end.
It’s funny to think about, because I have the exact opposite experience. I think it really comes down to the type of person though.
Most of the people I help (with IT) is people who is not that comfortable on a tablet and would like the next step up. A cheap laptop, with bigger screen and a physical keyboard. Used for banking, writing, browsing. Nothing that really can’t be done on a tablet as well.
All of these people use Linux. Mostly Mint or ElementaryOS, depending on their preference.
If we add gaming into the mix, it becomes a little more “complicated”. This really depends on the person. I have family/friends who game on Linux, but I also know one who didn’t last that long using Linux, because it simply didn’t fit their needs.
Whole lotta MacOS recommendations here, so I’m gonna say:
Bazzite.
… you can actually play games on it, and its an OS too!
More technically:
Its a Linux distro, an atomic version of Fedora, with many tweaks and pre built in utilities to make gaming work better and more easily.
If you have no idea what that means, it means that its fairly cutting edge but also very stable version of linux, where the core OS yells at you if you try to muck with it, and highly encourages you to use the various sandboxed containers it helps you use you run all sorts of applications.
The simple version of the above is: Just use the app store, Bazaar, and things will pretty much ‘just work’.
You can do more intense / power user / expert type stuff if you like, and it does take a few extra steps compared to just like, straight Fedora or Debian, but, Bazzite is much, much more noob friendly and much harder to break.
An immutable Linux system. Especially if there a total noon.
If they won’t be doing any modern gaming (like 2025/6 new releases), then Linux Mint.
If they want to do modern gaming, I highly recommend Fedora KDE Spin.
Mint is a bit easier for a new user, but Fedora arguably gives you the latest Linux has to offer at excellent stability. They also have some nice defaults like BTRFS, zswap, SElinux that you don’t have to worry about configuring manually.
I’ve been using Zorin for a couple of years and recently installed it on my desktop. It’s free.
Gentoo Linux :p Nah if they’re an average user, Mac OS is actually quite decent (especially on the M series Macs) and doesn’t have all the bs Windows does while it’s actually quite secure with lockdown mode.
Linux mint
I love mint, have you tried a KDE desktop though?
Yes, they’re terrible because you can’t navigate through their settings without a mouse. Tab only goes so far in KDE. I couldn’t stand it.
I respect your opinion, but it’s not one that will be held by average users.
Mint is not run by professionals. It has been pwnd more than once. It’s pretty, slightly better run than manjaro and has no reason to exist when ubuntu, fedora and suse exist.
Please stop pointing to mint as a starting place. Every level user is going to get a more secure and reliable experience avoiding mint.
Ubuntu, fedora, suse and spins of those 3. I wouldn’t put a normal user on anything else without extenuating circumstances.
From what I can find, the Linux Mint website was breached once, in 2016, for a short duration and during that time the download link for the ISO referred to a site that was hosting a version that installed a backdoor.
Meaning it was short in scope, the dev team reacted to it, handled it, and then were open and transparent about it, and it only affected people who downloaded the ISO at that exact span in time and also installed that version instead of replacing it when the announcement came.
The harsh reality of IT security isn’t that it’s a question of if you get hacked, it’s a question of when, even for multi-billion dollar companies.
Besides what other people said, manjaro breaks regularly.
Yup. Manjaro is infamous. Mint is dolled up ubuntu by volunteers
Stupid fucking answer.
I love Linux. I use it on multiple machines daily. It’s not for an average user.
Correct, I wrote a decent comment about the actual issues with Linux for the average user in this thread
If they are not savvy enough to do troubleshooting themselves or have no one to ask for help, I think macOS would be the best (assuming money isn’t an issue). Otherwise, Linux Mint.
There’s a rule you should learn. Never ever recommend Apple shit to people.
I generally wouldn’t, but I do have a iPhone for work and got a good price on a M2 a couple of years ago.
The hardware is better than most laptops and the battery life way out preforms my work Win11 Dell of the same age
“Your opinion is wrong”
Absolutely, that’s par for the course for anything Apple.
You’re a good little Genius™.
TempleOS
Yeah, the average user must commune with god.
This guy gets it.
The only real choice!
What do you like about it?
Its Jesus approved.
MacOS if they can afford it. Otherwise Linux Mint.
What the other replies shitting on macOS seem to be overlooking is the support Apple provides.
Got stuck on something? call the support line or web chat.
Want to go to a training session? go to a local store.
All this stuff is super important for a novice who wants to learn without feeling dependent on their tech friend.
This is what keeps Apple in business - they are very easy to use. Someone with zero technical skill can point at pictograms and open and close things. You could change the language to something you can’t read and use most features without an issue.
it reminds me of memes like this.
And hey, failing that, Linux Mint. It works at least.
The other thing that keeps Apple in business is tech companies not wanting to fuck around with windows or Linux laptops. Linux systems run the world and MacOS is just plain better when it comes to interacting with those systems while also serving as a good user-facing operating system.
And before anyone says WSL, I was forced to use WSL for an engagement and anyone who tells you it’s viable is a lying or a Stockholm syndrome sufferer.
Ironically, tons of programmers also use Mac, because it has a rock-solid GUI on top of a Unix. The ‘pictograms’ don’t matter as much as the fact that Apple designers actually know design basics unlike MS, and spent ages polishing the UI.
They even have classes to easily make emojis. Like it’s absurd the customer service they have. Windows tells you to fuck off. Does Linux have one? (I ran Ubuntu in college but honestly the ease of Mac switched me, and then dealing with windows at work killed any desire to be near a windows product).
Emojis - I think you mean stickers? Emojis as a set of characters are standardized by Unicode. A friend of mine has sent me stickers she’s taken from photos. Samsung devices also do this within their own ecosystem, but there’s not a frakin’ class about how to do it.
Linux customer service is “uh…there’s a forum somewhere…have you looked there?” People on lemmy hate when I say it, but paid (not free) Claude is actually very adept at troubleshooting Linux issues.
There’s a rule you should learn. Never ever recommend Apple shit to people.
Why is that? I love my Linux PCs but you should not underestimate the mental barrier of considering Linux as a new user. Starting with Mac OS is like a soft start into it. And the apple silicone machines are powerful af. I use one as ML server and it performs well. Oh and the privacy by design is still pretty good in Mac OS.
I tried getting my mom on Linux mint. Kinda made me realize it’s not as user friendly as I thought. I would go with windows or macOs if they just everything to “work”
The problem i see with Linux is that we all seem to have to rely on interpreting documentation on some level, whereas on Windows or Mac people search a problem, some article vaguely describes the issues they have, said article recommends [Insert Software Installer Here] to resolve aforementioned issue, people are pleased their issue is resolved without actually knowing what really changed on their system.
What exactly was the problem because everyone who I’ve seen use Linux Mint has had no problems, including my grandma who was bugging me every week about some dumb new shit Microsoft was doing before I switched her.
Because it’s expensive as shit, especially for a new user.
If you introduce any system to a person not familiar with computers, they’re a blank canvas and won’t need to change paradigms for their mental model. Great chance for Linux to shine. Just install an easy desktop environment, and a simple distribution. They’ll probably be a bit of hand holding at first but that’s what you’re there for as the friend having recommended their OS in the first place.
One easily gets blind of the fact that it takes quite a lot of knowledge of computers to run Linux. You often see stuff that scares the shit out of a regular user.
The problem is the experience is not customized for a person who doesn’t care HOW it works. They just want to do their stuff without hassle.
I’ve tried this a couple of times and mostly I end up being a 24/7 computer fixer hotline and end up installing macOs or windows in the end to make everyone happy
I’m running Arch Linux and I don’t know HOW it works, I just follow instructions. 🤷♂️
Everyone has to start out somewhere. There really are minimal effort/knowledge distros out there.
Well if you installed and set it up by yourself you already are way more advanced than a normal user. But again one easily is blind to that fact.
But what can we expect of this user were recommending a system for? Are they supposed to install it themselves or nah?
I didn’t know anything about how to install Arch when I decided to give it a shot. I just read instructions and typed what it told me to type. I knew nothing about what I was typing.
Same as when I installed Ubuntu like 20 years ago as a teenager. I filled in my name and clicked the Next button a few times, and entered what I think the partitions should look like. Then waited to watch the progress bar fill up.
These are steps you have to take to install Windows as well… Unless of course you’re not installing it yourself, but that can be the case for Linux, too.
Overpriced, idiotic design, idiotic UX, whit UI, anti-repair system.
said person is not particularly savvy with technology
Maybe the rule to be learned is read the post.
So you’re saying that it’s a good idea to give an overpriced, non-repairable, underperforming, shit looking, shit behaving, toxic corporate assfuck trash system to a person who’s not tech savvy.
Are you part of some big brain trust?
Mate I’m no fan of Apple but half the stuff you said is completely subjective or based off 2012 era memes. How do you define “overpriced” or “underperforming”? In terms of price, the hardware in their machines is usually pretty good, build quality has always been great. You’ll have to elaborate on “underperforming” as I’m not really sure what you’re saying with this.
Hey, I’ll give you $500 for every time I typed “good” in this thread prior to this comment. Take your time and look.
Then, when you’re done, I would encourage you to re-read the original post. Here, I’ll help you:
Say a friend is looking for a new system, and said person is not particularly savvy with technology, what system would you point them toward?
I would never point a friend towards Windows. So that’s easy.
not particularly savvy with technology,
Let’s read it again, OK?
not particularly savvy with technology,
Meaning that this is someone who might be lucky to know how to spell their name or tie their shoes. Someone that failed a driving test 4 times. Why make life more complicated for this friend? Especially when, if I’m a friend as well, when they one day follow ChatGPT advice on how to do something inane and delete their boot partition or something stupid, I have to help unfuck their stuff. This is someone that doesn’t deserve the responsibility that Linux distros give users. This is someone that doesn’t practice 3-2-1 backups. This is someone that forgets their phone in a bar the day after they got a new phone because they left the last one at the beach, but HAS TO HAVE their photos on there or they’ll die. They will never get anything repaired. They will never push performance limits (lol), as noted, they gladly spend money for someone to coddle them on using their device because they will never in their life learn how to do more than turn it on, take pictures, scroll IG or whatever, and a few other things.
This is not someone smart enough to responsibly use a Linix distro in my mind. And there are a LOT of people like this out there. A lot. And sometimes we’re friends with them and want them to at least not bother us all the time with problems if they’re willing and able to do that with the people that made the device.
Are we assuming this person has never used any other operating system before?
Because I do think a lot of the perception of Linux being more difficult is just because people who grew up on Windows or MacOS have gotten so used to those that the inertia of trying something new is what’s hard about it.
The person described may have some Windows or Mac experience at school or work, maybe they got an iPhone or Android but never considered getting their own computer.
I’d probably recommend a Mac for now. I can’t in good judgement recommend windows anymore.
Mac is solid and still respects your privacy to a certain degree.
Linux would be my second. Probably Zorin OS.
I’ve used Windows all my life (40 now) but the changes made in the last 10 or so years (since win 7 and forward have left me in a place where i feel Im super confused about even the freaking folder structure. Its partly on me becouse I havent kept up, but also, I havent asked for any of the shit they have done “recently”. I switched to Kubuntu about a year ago and nothing has been easier. Anyway, My recomendation would be a any linux distro, havent tried mint but from what people are saying it’s stable and easy so probably that one, but mostly because my feeling is that most Linux based OSs dont change stuff just for the sake of changing (someone will probably let med know the exceptions to this rule). But really, I think that the normal user dont want but to re-learn how to do something they allready knew how to do in an earlier version if there isnt a very good reason for it.
If you grew up with Windows, it’s intuitive and easy to you. That Doesn’t mean it’s intuitive for anyone else. Kids are super confused about Windows these days.
Anyway, I would still recommend Windows because everything is designed to work with it. Normies don’t troubleshoot. They just give up and move on. In this regard, you would want something that requires the least amount of troubleshooting. Every OS sucks in this regard, so I just don’t have a clear winner here. Windows might still be the least infuriating one though.
However, if they did troubleshoot, they would probably enjoy Linux. Those error messages actually tell you what’s wrong and how to fix it. Meanwhile in Windows, the errors are pretty much useless. You’ll end up reading a bunch of forum posts where nobody knows what’s causing the problem, let alone how to fix it. The best you’ll get is a list of 15 things to try. Just hope that at least one of them works. If you have a problem in Linux, you’ll usually find a forum post where someone tells you exactly what’s causing it and how to fix it.
Normies haven’t heard of privacy, and they also watch TV ads. Windows will be fine. They just won’t see any reason to switch to Linux.
If this average user doesn’t need to use Microsoft or Apple software, Fedora Workstation Linux. My dad, who is 78 and of average intelligence can use it, anyone can.
Linux can run on older, used hardware, has no AI, no Apple or Microsoft account required.
Bazzite. Fedora + drivers + immutable + gaming works out of the box.
I fail to see how gaming has anything to do with my retired dad.
I didn’t realize OP’s question was ‘What desktop operating system would you recommend to Scott’s dad?’ I guess I need new glasses.
I don’t get the appeal of immutability. System files are read-only for users for a reason already. Don’t modify them as root unless you know what you’re doing and you’ll be fine.
What am I missing?
(Also gaming for a 78 year old, meh.)
Making them immutable for everyone protects users who enter their password in prompts without thinking.
How can the system be upgraded at all if not even the root user has access though?
The updater downloads an updated copy of your root system and saves it next to the one you’re running.
When you reboot the next time, the bootloader boots from that new system image.
Userspace applications are installed as flatpaks and sit in a writeable directory.And “the updater” is what? A program running as [not root]? How does it have write access if nothing does?
It’s the package manager. And it doesn’t have write access either.
It doesn’t change anything on your installed file system at all, it installs a new system next to it.
I’m not an immutable guy, but from what I heard it’s more of a way to address programs and dependency hell, less the user modifying system code. Correct me if I am wrong
What you’re missing is that the question was what would you recommend to the average user.
Exactly, so there should be no reason to edit sensitive system files in either case. Great, further to my point.
Okay? I don’t understand this reaction in this context. I’m just making statements lol. Not yelling at you.
Bazzite?
Really, you would recommend a young, gaming focused distribution for a non-tech person?
I’d want something stable and trusted rather than something new and hip
Yes. I’ve been switching non-tech people to Linux for 17 years. Ubuntu used to be the go to, but it has a steep learning curve for the average user, sucks, and has gotten consistently worse. Everyone eats their shit over Mint, and Cinnamon is nice, but I’d still field a lot of complaints. Pop! OS is awesome, but still only 90% of the way there (and also people hate the name).
Bazzite is feature complete, requires zero tinkering on their end or mine, and ‘just works’ the way people expect a modern desktop OS to. I’ve converted just under a dozen people and several of my personal machines and haven’t had an issue yet. So yes, I would recommend a young, gaming focused distribution to a non-tech person. Isn’t Steam OS also young and gaming focused? And yet it’s arguable that most non-tech people start their Linux journey there. bazzite is just an improvement on Steam OS. So yeah, I like it. I don’t understand all the ire in this thread for my answer to the question. Everyone has their opinion, I have field research.Yes.
- In my Linux experience so far, Bazzite is the first time things have actually just worked out of the box and I haven’t had to fix a single weird issue
- It’s immutable with atomic updates, so much lower likelihood of accidentally fucking up the base system, and it’s super easy to roll back to previous versions if something still manages to go wrong
- Updates happen fully automatically in the background, you don’t even notice it
- You don’t ever need to touch the terminal in normal usage. Everything is set up so that you can find any software a normie would need through the built-in app store. Flatpaks are great
- If you object to the gaming focus, there’s a variant that’s just for regular desktop use and doesn’t have the gaming stuff preinstalled, but otherwise comes with all the same benefits
The one thing I’ll give you is that it’s a young distro and hasn’t proven itself to be reliable and still available in the long term, but honestly, given all the other benefits, I’ll take that chance
No, it doesn’t.
If you pick the correct hardware. Which is a crap shoot per distro, bazzite included.
People keep saying this but I’ve not had a single solitary issue getting Bazzite working on a myriad of older and newer devices.
I’ve had issues on multiple devices.
Which devices, if I may ask? I’m curious under which circumstances I should definitely not recommend it.
MacOS
At this point, I would also second MacOS/iOS just because of how much the two synergize with one another. But if you’re just doing basic shit and web browsing, iOS cause at least you can hold onto your phone for a long while before feeling the need to upgrade again.
There’s a rule you should learn. Never ever recommend Apple shit to people.
There is another rule you should learn too: don’t showcase your Apple envy more than twice in the same thread.
See, there’s the face of the fanbase. Poor people think Apple is expensive. I gave away my Macbook after a few weeks because it sucked and because I can 😏
It’s important to protect potential customers of becoming like you.
My Fedora/KDE setup is superior in any regard. The only thing Apple is better at is screwing their idiot buyers.
His Apple hatred knows no bounds.You mean corporate hate?
Keep sucking off your overlords.
What do you think about Microsoft and Windows?
Even Windows users don’t like Windows. Unless someone is setting up LTSC to avoid feature updates to not get AI crap and ads I would avoid Windows for the average consumer.
As a Fedora user - Apple has better security. Linux doesn’t do everything better.
The French call that «l’issue du skill». Privacy and security start in your mind.
I said security. Privacy is related but different.
And you know that the answer is the same ;)
Apple users are the easiest to scam because they … well, bought Apple.
Is this some kind of a bot?
I don’t think he’s a bot, just someone who wants to shit-talk for the fun of it.
Check for yourself Schluppi. You seem a bit lost online.
