I don’t… I really don’t understand what’s happening here. Are you pretending to be stupid to troll me or something? Is this how you get your jollies? By pretending to have a room temperature IQ to strangers online? Is it some weird kind of kink or something? Bro… are you using me to get your rocks off? Not fucking cool, man. You don’t just drag strangers into your kink. I did not consent to that shit. Go do your whole humiliation fetish thing somewhere else.
Alright, bud. I’d be very interested in seeing what math you do to make the $7 bn net income from FY 2024 (which I mentioned) into something other than $7 bn. Or the $122 bn total assets & equity (which I also mentioned) into something other than $122 bn. Like… what the fuck are you even talking about?
Source I’m using:
https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/tsla/financials
Hahah yep there we go… You haven’t been using publicly available data cause as far as I can see you haven’t referenced any number from their financials once
Err… what? I’ve referenced several numbers from their financials. What the fuck are you talking about?
If you want to know what their assets are worth without any fluff go right to their balance sheet
Uh yeah - I quoted that. Seriously, didn’t you say that you read everything I wrote? You couldn’t be bothered to skim it before posting this just to make sure you didn’t look like a dipshit when you hit reply?
Is this some sort of ploy to salve your ego in advance or something? I mean, Jesus. That’s truly pathetic.
Alright, well, I showed you mine. Let’s hear your valuation & rationale. My numbers are all based on the publicly available data. Let’s see what you got.
Also your valuation is still wrong hahaha. You thinking Tesla should be $12 and being able to prove that out with a fact pattern are two different things.
Well, you are at least correct about one thing. I was incorrect about the $12 stock price. In my defense, I wasn’t looking at the numbers at the time, just spitballing it. But going with the $45.5 bn valuation I mentioned previously, and their 3.5 bn outstanding shares, that would put the price per share at $13. I humbly accept the humiliation that comes with getting a hypothetical stock price incorrect by 8%.
I’m assuming here but I’m guessing you’ve need read a financial report, never done a dcf, have no idea how to model an investment and don’t know what PE ratios actually means.
I mean, I did allude to the fact that I think you might be an idiot before, and since you said that you read everything I wrote, I’ll just leave it at that. You’re not helping your case by being so hilariously wrong here.
Hey do me a favor let me know where I said Tesla was properly valued?
Are you slow, or something? This entire thread started because you were whining about people being hurt by Tesla losing money. Then, when I pointed out that it’s a bloated piece of shit and cited a valuation that was in the right ballpark, you said: “I don’t think you understand how valuations work”.
So, were you lying then, or are you lying now as you’re pretending that you agreed with me the entire time that Tesla is overvalued?
I don’t think you understand how valuations work.
My guy. Jesus. Just stop. Please don’t tell me that you think that Tesla, a car company with a bit more than a third of the global assets of Ford, and with less than half their yearly sales, should have a market cap 18 times higher than them. You’re embarrassing yourself.
Tesla’s valuation, in a rational market, would (like most other stocks) be in line with their industry. You take the assets, subtract the liabilities, and multiply by an industry-specific value to represent their potential for long-term growth. For Ford, that value (PE ratio) is 6.90. For GMC, it’s 7.73. Since Tesla has far fewer global assets than Ford and GMC (~$122 bn for TSLA, $285 bn for F, and $280 bn for GMC), it would be generous to give them a PE ratio of 7, even with them being involved in industries other than auto manufacturing. Let’s say 6.5 would be a reasonable PE.
6.5 times their $7 bn in earnings in 2024 would be a market cap of $45.5 bn, which is almost 16 times lower than their market cap in December of last year.
By any rational metric, TSLA is a bloated piece of shit. The fact that you think otherwise either means that you don’t know what you’re doing, or you’re an idiot.
The last time I came through American customs, it was when I was returning from a conference in Spain, and a colleague of mine got detained for 3 hours because he “looked suspicious”. Man’s a fucking engineer, with credentials out the wazoo, but apparently he fidgeted in line or something. Sitting there in the little space available just anxiously waiting for them to release him was harrowing, but I can’t even imagine what he went through. Nobody would tell me shit; in fact, the more I asked about him, the more it felt like they were treating me like a suspect. If they’d ended up deciding that he didn’t pass the sniff test, they could have taken him anywhere, and nobody would know a fucking thing about it for God knows how long.
Man, I’m getting sweaty just reliving that. Fuck I hate this country sometimes.
I haven’t done any international travel for the last few years, but I used to do it a decent amount for work, and lemme tell you: the worst part of those trips wasn’t the long / cramped plane flights; it was going through US customs.
I’m a US citizen, but every time I went through those lines, it felt like I was passing through a military checkpoint into occupied territory. Every time I went through that experience, it made me hate what our country has become just that little bit more.
Bro… do you think that Ford and GMC don’t own land, machinery, buildings, etc? That’s part of the fucking valuation.
And christ - the market is completely irrational. It valued a piece of shit like $TSLA at $480, for fuck’s sake. No telling what the fuck is going to happen in a year. Your supposition that the market will do what it’s “supposed” to do to poorly valued stocks indicates that you don’t have a whole lot of experience staring that particular beast in the mouth.
Well, first of all, I didn’t copy paste shit. Secondly, I think the Dutch tulip theory is a completely apt way to describe something whose price is so completely disproportionate to its actual value. Thirdly, I have been tracking this shit for years, now, and I know a little bit about what I’m talking about.
I understand that a lot of people have tesla in their portfolios, either directly or through index funds. That doesn’t change any tiny bit of the point that I was making, which is that the stock is 100% based on hype alone. Stocks based on hype are not reliable - just look at $GME. So whining about the stock going down because people are mad at Elon and torching a few cars is fucking dumb. The stock could go down because of a rumor, or because Elon says something stupid at a convention, or because of any number of things. It’s vapor.
Some of those that work forces something something.
$TSLA is a huge, bloated bubble filled with nothing but hype. If they were treated by the market as just a regular old car company (like Ford [$F] or General Motors [$GM]), their market cap would be a tiny fraction of what it is currently. Their market cap at the closing bell today is $724 billion, with a stock price of $224 per share. Compare that to Ford (which has more than twice Tesla’s yearly global sales figures) with a market cap of $39.4 billion and a stock price of $10 / share. Or to GMC (which has sales figures about 60% higher than Tesla’s) at a market cap of $48.4 billion and a stock price of $49 / share.
If Tesla’s stock was valued based on their actual business instead of investor hype driven by mind-boggling adoration for their CEO, their market cap would probably be around $20 billion, which with their current number of outstanding shares, would put the price at around $6.20 per share.
Ok, so you might throw out the fact that Tesla also sells batteries and has their hands in AI and other things. Those are all very small parts of their overall yearly business, but the market is also based on future expectations. Let’s say that a fair price for their stock would be maybe $10 / share. $12 at the absolute most.
It’s at $224 per share today. In December of last year, it hit a high of $480.
$TSLA is the modern version of the Dutch tulip market in the 1630s. Its perceived value bears absolutely zero resemblance to its actual value. You’re worried about investors losing their shirts on this, but this shit has been vaporware from the beginning. Anybody who based their investment strategy around Tesla’s stock has been playing roulette. Am I supposed to feel bad about them losing because they bet on black instead of red?
It’s politically motivated property damage, which is terrorism
By that metric, you could also claim that defacing a political sign during election season is terrorism. Some terrorist drew a mustache on a billboard of one of the candidates in my district. Should the FBI investigate that, too?
The problem with your slippery slope argument is that it’s fucking stupid. You have to draw the line somewhere. If the FBI is going to investigate every time someone decides to huck a molotov cocktail at a nazimobile, they’re going to have their hands way too full to track down real crimes.
Actually 30 years ago as of a month and a day from now (April 19th, 1995). Still, there’s a huge fucking difference between a little light arson and parking a van packed full of explosives in front of a federal building. This is property damage, not terrorism.
The most fucked up part of this is the fact that the FBI is involved. I’m old enough to remember a time when someone vandalizing a few cars in a lot at 3 in the morning when nobody was around would be a local PD issue, and not the fucking FBI. Seems like it was only a couple of months ago… man, time flies.
Seriously, though - in a normal world, this would be far below the payroll of FBI agents. They would spend their time investigating terrorist organizations or child traffickers and bounce this shit back to LVMPD and tell Tesla to file an insurance claim. Instead, the head of the FBI is the lackey of the president, who owes his position to the billionaire that owns Tesla, and so now the FBI is serving as Elon Musk’s personal private investigators. It’s disgusting.
I remember last time around, Trump talked in his press conferences about Muslim prayer rugs being found at the Mexican border, which is a thing that did not happen in reality, but was a plot point in “Sicario”. I’m guessing this time around, he’s basing his foreign policy on “Canadian Bacon”.
I dunno, man. Seems like a leap to believe he’s doing it for cynical, shady business reasons when the far more likely explanation is just that he’s a stupid cunt.
I am not confused about the intent. The intent is pretty clear. What I’m confused about is the legal argument. The reason I am confused is that he is trying to eliminate birthright citizenship; that means that the defendants are all of the people born in the United States to two non-citizen parents. Which also means that his legal argument is that the act of being born under these circumstances on US land means that you are not subject to the jurisdiction of the US, which puts you into the role of diplomat or enemy combatant. So unless he’s trying to say that US-born babies of non-citizens are diplomats of their parents’ respective countries… the only possible interpretation is that they are foot soldiers of some invading army.
Which brings me back to the point of showcasing how utterly ridiculous that argument is, and why I am confident that any functional supreme court would laugh the case out of the building.
I don’t think you fully grasp the situation. You still seem to think that there are consequences for Trump when he breaks the law, and that the legal system in the US is still in-tact enough to grant you not only your freedom, but some compensation for your rights being trampled.
Yes, it is outrageously illegal for him to abduct Americans and send them to a black site on foreign soil with no due process. But he spent his entire last term positioning himself to be able to do and get away with outrageously illegal things this time around. He controls the department of justice and the supreme court. The supreme court has already given him an incredibly wide blanket for presidential immunity.
You might think “well, that’s ok - as soon as the story gets out, people will be rioting in the streets!”, but you have to remember that “independent media” is a thing that doesn’t really exist anymore. All of the major news sources in print and on television are owned by a small handful of billionaires, and he is very good at keeping billionaires on side. Any information that gets out there will be downplayed immediately, and the news will be forgotten in a couple of days to be replaced by the latest shocking celebrity news or the latest atrocity Trump has committed.
You probably would get out eventually (provided you don’t get sick and die or get beat to death by the guards or shanked or something), but you would be far, far worse off for the experience. The dream of vindication you’d get for sticking it to Trump would vanish like mist in the sun and you’d be left with the heart-wrenching reality that the life you had previously known is over, and you are at the mercy of the barbarians now.