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Obama was a good president - in comparison to the last few American presidents.
Was he a good president overall? Hell no.
we’ve had, at most, 3 good presidents, and certainly haven’t had a good one since Reagan
Are you saying Regan was a good president? Or that Jimmy Carter was the last good one?
oh god. reagan was terible. carter i’m on the fence about but i’ll hear arguments that he’s about the best one could expect to get through electoralism
well, Obama seems to be the best one since Reagan, that’s still something, even if little
since the 80s, yeah he’s been the best. still absolutely terrible because instead of implementing meaningful change he continued the american project of empire
Extended family: I miss the times the world was less on fire You: buttery males
I miss the times when i could ignore that the world was on fire
ftfy
So what are you trying to say? Let’s not complain about the current things, because it used to be bad before too? That it’s just as bad now as it was then?
Because that’s the message you’re sending
No, I’m saying that the world only seemed less on fire because we westerners had better insulation. It has been this bad for a long time now.
White-whingers: I miss when I could ignore the suffering of children locked in cages, illegal drone strikes on unidentified targets, and discrimination against POC and queer peoples.
Me: You’re fucking scum.
For clarity: I agree with you on the highest level, I don’t think people committing crimes against humanity should get away with it.
I’m definitely not informed enough (or American enough) to have more useful input than “I don’t think whataboutism is the solution”. You won’t win your extended family over like that, nor any strangers on the internet. Instead suggest ways to actually make a difference, or at least phrase it in a way that you’re not sounding like you’re making excuses for Trump.
The only solution is for people to stop seeing criticism of Democrats as endorsement for Republicans. That will require shattering their bubble of perception that they are the good guys vs the bad.
That’s what agitation is, it’s direct confrontational and in your face. It’s to make you have to rationalise your views and try to defend the indefensible.
I mean, every registered Republican is a bad guy, at least within the last 20 years, probably longer but I don’t have enough historical context to know that for sure. With the Democrats it’s more nuanced but it can range from Chuck Schumer working to continue enabling genocide to Zohran Mamdani working for the people.
Imagine two groups of people, one is all Nazis and the other is 60% Nazis, 35% Nazi apologists, and 5% potentially decent people.
Would you hang out with the slightly less Nazi group? What do you think that would make you if you hung around with 60% Nazis and their apologists?
I know what my answer would be, and it would be to hang around neither group and instead plan how to see very real harm come to them as my enemies. I wouldn’t defend them for being less Nazi, because any amount of Nazi is indefensible.
I get your meaning. It’s infuriating and exhausting that I have to constantly fight for incremental progress and I hate that there are still terrible actors in the party. That’s why I champion progressives and celebrate every time one gets in.
The fact of the matter is not engaging gets (even more) people killed and I will always hold them accountable but that also means holding myself and the other side accountable. Does it stop at the ballot box? No. You protest, you educate, you arm.
This analogy would work if the full Nazi group wasn’t already in power starting wars and running camps.
Both Nazi groups were starting wars and running camps. You should be outraged but you’re too busy defending one lot of murderers because they murder slightly less.
That logic breaks down with elections where choosing to not vote instead of voting for the slightly less nazi group results in a higher chance of the 100% nazis winning.
The logic holds because people it doesn’t matter what percentage Nazi you are, you are still Nazi.
The only solution is for people to stop seeing criticism of Democrats as endorsement for Republicans
Did you know there are mathematicians who study fairness and bias in voting systems? Well, is possible for you to convince those mathematicians of that fact, but first you’ll have to abolish First Past The Post and replace it with a condorcet method.
Now I’m not using that as a gotcha. I think changing America’s voting system is a great idea. But it’s also really hard. So I’ll support you in trying to do that. But if you want to change people’s understanding of the system without changing the system, I don’t think that’s a serious ask, because these people you’re criticising tend to have a good understanding of the mathematics.
Let me guess, your strategy for changing the voting system is to vote for a lesser evil in the broken system.
“My car broke down” “Well then, just drive it to the mechanic!” what a load of nonsense. A broken tool won’t fix itself.
“Mathematics” my ass. I’m constantly in awe of the fact that most of the ways I disagree with you are that you are too attached to treating human social constructs as objectively real. The whole electoral system was created by humans and is maintained only through faith, if it proves incapable of functioning as is required by the actually real physical constraints of planet earth, then it will change. The gap between what must, necessarily happen, and what this social construct tells us is possible widens every day. One way or another, things the system claims are “impossible” are going to happen, and it can either adapt or it can go down in flames.
The idea that electoral strategy is purely dictated by “mathematics,” that liberalism is somehow an objective, unchangeable facet of reality, is completely absurd.
It’s worse now by orders of magnitude
It was bad enough before, not something to want to go back too.
“Mega-Hitler sucks, I wish we had regular Hitler back!” Said no one except a Nazi.
This community is for MEMES ONLY. Do not post serious discussion of any kind.
So someone can post a spicy political meme but we cant discuss it?
I think that means we can discuss in the comments of a meme. Just no serious text posts, that’s for the main comm.
I don’t know, I’ve never had the book thrown at me on fediverse.
I guess I just try to follow the rules of communities, particularly ones I don’t often participate in.
In the piefed UI at least, this warning is shown here in the comment box as a placeholder.
Oh maybe they’re starting to take it more seriously. I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Many places seem to let votes do the content curation before mods step in. I’ve seen some horror stories on yerpowertrippinbastards but it isn’t too hard to stay under the radar.
Eventho he did dronestrikes etc. at least he had intelligence and charisma. I don’t fucking understand how anyone could watch trump and think that this guy has any brain cells. He is so bad speaker that it is insane how anyone goes to listen him.
I don’t fucking understand how anyone could watch trump and think that this guy has any brain cells.
It’s an easy trap to underestimate Trump, but the fact is that he is anything but stupid. He sounds absurd because we aren’t the target audience. That is why the media laughed in 2016, they aren’t either.
The fact is that he is an excellent showman and good manipulator. He won based on an electorate fed up with a hypocritical and out of touch establishment voting for the “fuck you” option.
So he was a more competent form of evil? That’s not a good thing.
He was one of the least evil US presidents since Bush (the 1st one). Still evil though. just less so than almost everybody else.
And he is also believed to be a competent president. IMO, I don’t know how to judge that.
I first read that as you claiming Bush was the first evil president, before I realized you meant Bush senior 🙃
People can relate to people comparable to themselves.
God fucking dammi"EVENTHO"???
is the bar so fucking low we push aside warcrimes?
I would take liberal bs a million times over the conservative bs my extended family dumped on me.
Absolutely
Also I would have him back today without a second thought. You know, levels of evil and such
Isn’t a requeriment to be president on united states ?
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It’s all relative
Perhaps deliver them in song like Palpatine?
I wonder if this post is going to start an argument about electoralism. That’s a lie, I already know the answer. OP, this isn’t helping.
