is this legal where you live?
Yes. A man can have up to 4 wives.
4 wives? That mans Honey Do List is going to be huge. LOL
Can you divorce him? Or even if it is legal, are you too tied up financially to do it?
Also, could you, technically, have another man?
Third: was you chosen by him or did you have men before you choose eachoder?
As a woman you have to prove some kind of neglect / abuse in order to be granted a divorce. I have my own savings and assets. No. I chose him, I married fairly young (20), I didn’t have anyone else. Unrelated men and women don’t just casually spend time together (of course it does happen in secret, as does dating in secret) - it’s inappropriate.
Ngl it kinda just sounds like you like having a rich husband and not having to work at all
I do like that, yes, I’m not going to lie.
Respect for the honesty
And sucking off the gov teat since she’s an unwed single mother…assuming she’s in the USA.
Op is basically a leech…and for some reason bragging about being a parasite…smh
You are just telling us SO much about yourself, right now.
If given the opportunity, would you sit in the cuck chair of the hotel room?
No.
why are you doing this AMA?
Mostly to give an insider’s view into this sort of marriage which is clouded in orientalism and false assumptions. I’m also bored, and AMAs are like an interview, which is fun.
are you happy with this arrangement?
Very.
What’s the sex life like for all of you? You ever discuss frequency & quality with the 1st wife?
Some couples have a set schedule, we don’t really have that. It’s just spontaneous and organic, and it’s based on understanding from all parties involved, and communication. The most important thing is for everyone to feel satisfied. No, we don’t discuss those kind of things - only vaguely, not in detail - for the greater context (if we’re happy).
It’s an interesting contrast with Western norms. So, if your husband had sex with #1 (cue Riker jokes), would it bother you if later that day he had sex with you?
No.
How did you meet? What was the dating or courtship like? How did knowing you’d be a second wife rather than a first factor into your decision? When did you meet first wife and how did she factor into your decision, on a personal level?
I met him through my dad. He brought him home to discuss some business related things while hanging out. We got to know each other in the pretty traditional Arab way, we were never alone in private as unrelated man and woman - we chilled as a group or with an accompanying person (we had our time without them around but we weren’t ever alone in private completely). 6 months later he proposed. 6 months later we got married. I didn’t care at the time about the second wife thing. I just wanted to be with him. Didn’t even cross my mind back then. My mindset was we ll cross that bridge once we get there. I met her after we got engaged. She wanted to make sure that I’m not an insufferable person, didn’t take her long to give her permission. I thought she was nice so that was good.
you mentioned islam in another comment, and i know very little about the rules related to this marital situation in context so please forgive some potential assumptions/ignorance and i’d be delighted to be corrected on any points im assuming incorrectly here:
i assume that it’s 1 husband 4 wives, but that the wives aren’t allowed 4 husbands… in this case, it seems asymmetric in terms of, almost value between genders i guess?
i’m a gay man, and we often have polyamorous relationships, but in that case it’s very symmetric: anyone can have a relationship with anyone, so everyone is entitled to the same kinds of things
i’m wondering how that makes you feel as a women? you’ve said you’re very happy with the arrangement - i guess i’m wondering how you square the difference in entitlements? both for yourself, and in the relationship
*edit: also interested in how the relationship handles him wanting a new wife: how (if?) that’s negatiated, and i guess whether you find your experience with that to be typical among people you know
I wouldn’t say in terms of value between genders, more as different roles and expectations for each gender. Men and women can’t be symmetric because they’re different - you can’t make a one on one comparison between 2 separate things, it’s like apples and oranges. For example, I don’t have to work unless I want to, a privilege which a man doesn’t have in Islam. Islamically my only responsibilities are taking care of my husband, house and family. The husband’s job is to make the wife’s job as easy and pleasant as possible, which is why household staff is so popular here in the Gulf. Many wives don’t even have to clean or cook. I much prefer the role of a woman than that of a man, I can’t imagine having so many people dependent on you. The responsibility, burden is heavy. So that’s the answer to how it makes me feel. In Islam when you get married you sign a marriage contract (nikah, the ceremony is called melcha here). In the marriage contract you can (and should) write all of your wants, needs, expectations, etc. to the most trivial things such as how many vacations you want per year. You can’t outright specify in the contract that the husband can’t take another wife, as that’s his Islamic right as a man, but you can state that he can’t take one without your consent (as the first wife). If you don’t specify anything it’s taken as your implicit consent. How it works all depends on the couple and the man. Some take wives without even telling their 1st wife, others (such as my husband) discuss it with her, ask for permission, has the 2nd wife meet her, etc. The Islamic rule about multiple wives is that all drama should be avoided and it should be peaceful.
I have one sister who follows a religion (Christianity) that treats women as less than men, and she was completely fine with in into her mid-thirties. She now seems conflicted about it, but her devotion to the religion is stronger than her desire to be treated equally.
Does it bother you to live in a community that grants you fewer rights because of your reproductive organs? Does it impact how you follow your religion?
I talked about this in another comment: https://lemmy.world/comment/13806398. For the record I’m more of a cultural Muslim than a practicing one. I fast during Ramadan, don’t eat pork or drink alcohol, wear abaya and shayla, things like that but I can’t say I’m super religious. I don’t wish to be treated equally, I wish to be treated right as a woman; which is not at all the same as being treated like a man.
I appreciate your answer, but this view (“I wish to be treated right as a woman; which is not at all the same as being treated like a man”) is fucked up. Maybe it works for you and your husband/sisterwife, but if y’all got kids? They deserve to know and believe that men and women aren’t some wildly different creatures. Everyone needs food, and kindness. Everyone deserves to go outside, explore, feel the warmth of the sun on their skin. If you wish to forgo what you deserve, that is your choice. But women and men both deserve dignity, respect, and care, and not in separate all-womem-must-be-treated-differently ways.
Here in the West, conservative Christian groups have been pushing Biblical Manhood & Womanhood, about divine differences between the genders. And that leads to women constantly being spiritually pushed around and silenced. And it also leads to more women who think they deserve abuse, subordination, and who won’t get themselves out of harmful situations.
I see in the linked comment that you come from a region with lots of house help. Most women, maybe not the ones visible in your circles, do not have the luxury to push off their household duties with money. And many women don’t want to be caged in their houses with that as their only path in life. Women deserve more than one narrow path. I’ve heard a lot of former Muslim women talk about their own marriages–none of them discussed getting to advocate for themselves in their marriage contracts–maybe more often the fathers are supposed to do to that for them?
Honestly, it sounds like you’re trying to peddle this tradwife life, knowing your wealth and apparent power through marriage contract has you in a much greater position of power than most women in the Islamic world.
I do have kids, and so does the other wife. “Everyone needs food, and kindness. Everyone deserves to go outside, explore, feel the warmth of the sun on their skin. But women and men both deserve dignity, respect, and care.” I agree with this and don’t think these are gender specific needs. But I also do believe men and women are different, and have different expectations, responsibilities, privileges and roles in society and life. “And that leads to women constantly being spiritually pushed around and silenced. And it also leads to more women who think they deserve abuse, subordination, and who won’t get themselves out of harmful situations.” - that’s just bad interpretation and a pretext-justification for bad behavior. If I was abused or even neglected I’d be granted a divorce. Different doesn’t mean better than the other, it means important in their own unique way. “And many women don’t want to be caged in their houses with that as their only path in life. Women deserve more than one narrow path.” - and I agree with this, as I’ve said, women should work if they want to, not because they need to. “I’ve heard a lot of former Muslim women talk about their own marriages–none of them discussed getting to advocate for themselves in their marriage contracts–maybe more often the fathers are supposed to do to that for them?” - that’s an education issue. Women do have a wali “guardian” (it can be your father, uncle, brother, etc.) who has to be present and he should advocate for the woman and gets the most out of her marriage contract; but you should be the one to advocate for yourself - since you and your spouse are the only ones actually drafting the contract. “Honestly, it sounds like you’re trying to peddle this tradwife life” - I’m not peddling anything, I don’t believe my life is the way or the highway.
“- that’s just bad interpretation and a pretext-justification for bad behavior. If I was abused or even neglected I’d be granted a divorce. Different doesn’t mean better than the other, it means important in their own unique way”
I dunno man, I’ve been working through a lot of the gender-essentialist garbage I was raised in, and this just takes me back to so many childhood conversations with teachers at church where I would ask why someone couldn’t do something (where the answer was because they were female), and I’d say that sounds sexist; then I’d get fed the platitudes about how men and women were created for different roles. It was a line that was used to shut me up, personally.
You can personally believe that women should get to choose their own path, but how are women considered in your society & the wider Islamic world if they choose to work instead of get married? I know Afghanistan is not in the Gulf, but it is known for following strict Islamic law. I’ve been seeing news headlines TODAY about female midwife/nursing students now being forbidden to continue their studies. It was the last path of higher education available to them. How are women supposed to know their rights or how they should be treated if they cannot get education? Again, I’ve heard story after story of women (middle eastern and western, Muslim and Christian) who were raised to believe they had to obey their fathers on everything, who were homeschooled, who didn’t understand what they deserved. How would those women, do you think, advocate for themselves in a marriage contract? I’d be fucking pissed if at 30 I found out I could have written “no other wives, no gambling” but no body told me. That feels like a trap.
I don’t know specifically about divorce in the Muslim world–is that relatively easy to get? Again, here in the West, divorce is relatively easy to get. It’s still really hard, really expensive. And pastors regularly tell women who are being abused not to leave their abusive spouses (https://julieroys.com/woman-john-macarthur-church-stay-abusive-husband/ as an example, though there are plenty more that don’t make it into the news). And most of the churches that counsel women this was are invariably gender-essentialists. Biblical Manhood & Womanhood philosophy, even when they don’t use those precise terms. Additionally, a lot of people coming out of abusive relationships report later that they couldn’t see just how abusive their situations were until they were months or years out. So honestly, how do you know you could get out of an abusive situation? Do you have a secret stash of money? Do you trust your family to help you, or your religious leaders? Just because something should be available under the correct circumstances doesn’t mean it is. If it is there for you, I’m am so glad. Truly. I’m glad you have a relationship that works for you and you feel secure in your life. But pushing that women and men are different, or that women need men as guardians, normalizes attitudes that really do result in hurt and subjugation.
If I was abused or even neglected I’d be granted a divorce
Granted? And what if you couldn’t prove you were being abused? Actual abuse isn’t like on tv where the victim is walking around covered in bruises. Abusers are very good at hiding it
What percent would you say your reasons for getting married are between romantic, sexual, economic, social (i.e. connection to his social network and family).
Eg. 50% economic, 20% romantic, 20% social and 10% sexual.
Feel free to add any other reasons that I may have overlooked.
what’s a question you hope not having to answer here?
None. It’s an ask me anything after all…
Did your father have multiple wives? And if so what was your relationship to them like, were they more like aunts or mothers?
On the other side does wife 1 or you have children and if so what’s that like?
He didn’t. Co-wives are more like aunts / stepmoms to the kids I guess. In Arabic the word for it (co-wife) is جَارة - which literally means “female neighbor”. We both have kids. I have a son and she has a son and a daughter. The kids are very close.
My life partner lives half the time with me, half the time with their other partner. None of us are religious, though.
You said you’re more of a cultural Muslim than a religious one. How do you think would your life differ if you were religious? Do you think not being religious makes it easier or harder to embrace your traditions? Were you raised religious?
Curious because I personally only like to partake in local traditions that aren’t related to religion, because I think being raised religious did more harm than good for me.
I think it’d be pretty miserable. The religious Muslims I know are extremely paranoid to the point of delusion & very self-hating. Islam is a religion of ethics, with a haram / halal (unlawful / lawful) system which can be applied to quite literally every single micro action in your life. If you were to do it “by the book” it’d limit your life to the point of misery. Even music is considered haram. There are even rules about grooming your pubes / armpit hair. Definitely easier. I was raised fairly secular actually for a Muslim but still taught about Islam and everything.
