Thing is, there’s people out there on windows 10 on a computer without the magic special chip windows 11 demands.
Lots of those people can’t update and lots don’t know about Linux or understand how to even use a USB drive to install it.
Yes it’s easy for us semi tech people, but remember not everyone is into tech or understand how computers works.
People NEED computers to do stuff like applying for jobs, or searching online, or video games with friends.
Those people who don’t have a tpm chip and can’t upgrade will just not and continue using a insecure windows 10 because they don’t know or understand what it is.
Remember Lemmy, just because you understand tech, doesn’t mean everyone knows about it, or can grasp the concepts.
This is true not everyone out there has the capability to go out and have something like Linux, or the best version of windows 10 on their machines. But most people here are either knowledgeable enough, or have enough patience to try something like Linux out. If you know people that are in this position with their current machines from windows 10 to 11,and are not tech savvy, help them, and try not to be patronizing. Help them out by installing something like mint or Ubuntu and walk with them on the system, as many times as needed. If they cannot get used to it or find something that simply won’t work, don’t try to force Linux on them. Just find the best windows 10 version and install it. At some point if something doesn’t work anymore on windows 10 and they want to keep the machine, they will reach out to try Linux again, or, they will try to sell the machine they cannot operate with anymore (or give away, depending on the situation). Either way, help people out but don’t be abrasive if things do not work out the way you wanted.
I wish it was more straightfoward to make vm, customize settings and then transfer that to an external ssd to dual boot, I want to ease into linux but I get confused seeing all the differetn ways to do things and no consensus.
Also people talking about changing Distris all the time, do they retain their data? Is that what a home drive is for? Just asking here since you seem to know lol. Like can you redload your apps, ui, retain your data “easily.” (once you do it once)
My dad has a bunch of old friends that elected me to be their tech support, which makes me have to explain the basics of the basics most of the time. Trust me when I say that a lot of people in these forums have no idea how tech illiterate some people are.
I had a situation years ago where an old guy asked me to reset his android phone. I - unfortunately - complied because I made the mistake of trusting that he knew what he was asking, so I just made sure everything was backed up on his cloud. Result: he lost access to his photos, numbers, etc because he had no idea that he had a gmail account associated to his phone. Fortunately, his daughter knew and remembered the password so he recovered them.
Another situation I had with another guy was having to explain why stremio wouldn’t work on his iphone while his friends (with androids) could use it. Without going into details, he didn’t know what an “OS” was.
Let me repeat it because it’s relevant to this post: the guy didn’t know what an Operative System was. And he’s hardly alone.
In these kind of tech forums, I found that a lot of users don’t truly grasp how tech illiterates can be (and sometimes confuse that for lack of intelligence, but that’s another discussion). It’s hard for them to understand how most people don’t care what OS they are running. A lot of people will continue to use Windows 10 and not care they don’t receive more updates, as far as they are concerned, it still works and lets them do their stuff.
How could anyone consider themselves a well-rounded adult without a basic understanding of silicate geochemistry? Silicates are everywhere! It’s hard to throw a rock without throwing one!
I went out of my way to get a TPM from my systems OEM. I’m a tech, I’ve built dozens of machines without issue. I personally use a Dell, because I can’t be arsed to deal with it for my own kit.
Granted, the Dell I’m using can easily fit the HEDT description, but still.
I’m still using Windows 10 because fuck Windows 11. I am forced to use that shit for work and I hate it. I’m constantly in need of stuff from the settings/control panel to fix other people’s shit, and every time I go to settings, shit is somewhere different, buttons are moved or entirely missing… It’s a right fucking mess.
On any Windows 10 system, I go to control panel, find the appropriate item, such as programs and features, or network and sharing center, etc… And all the controls are there, working, and haven’t changed in any meaningful way since XP.
The thing that Microsoft seems to have abandoned is sent semblance of consistency. They’re so deep in the shit with their CD/CI with the settings panel that for every feature build of Windows 10/11, the settings menu will have options in dramatically different locations. The main difference between 10 and 11 here is that, in Windows 10, the control panel was still in one piece. In Windows 11, several control panel icons now take you to the settings menu “equivalents” to the cpl you’re looking for.
This is particularly bad with printing. Omg. How tf do I check/change the fucking driver in use for a printer in the fucking Windows 11 settings menu?
If I go through what’s left of the control panel, and go to devices and printers, I get taken to the settings menu for devices which includes a section for printers, so I go into printers, and I have to hunt down a moving target for where tf they put the button to open the control panel printers and devices dialog, which seems to change weekly. Then I can open the printer settings dialog and see what driver is in use on the advanced tab, or what fucking port it’s connected to… Which, when you deal with network printers, is a pretty fucking important piece of information. Then, half the time the printer port is a fucking wsd, and I have to go spelunking into the registry to find it’s fucking IP address.
Wsd ports are fine right up until they fuck up, which happens frequently, TCP/IP ports don’t really have any problems at all. So why the fuck are we moving everyone to fucking wsd ports? Where is the benefit? Explain Microsoft! Explain!
It’s so goddamned frustrating to use as a technician. A lot of this stuff doesn’t really apply to steam users or home users in general, because these menus aren’t really looked at a lot. So the TPM requirement is the usual suspect for people’s frustrations with Windows 11.
I wouldn’t give nearly as much of a shit if they would just leave things where they are. I would only need to learn where the buttons and knobs and dialogs are once, and that would be it. But they have a bug shoved so far up their ass about making “improvements” that I can’t rely on anything staying where it is.
Like seriously, if there was ever a time to do a concerted push for linux, it’s now. Start the campaigns, start the tutorials start the memes and the warnings and get the process down to under an hour. It won’t be a weird thing, it will be the lord and savior allowing your PC to continue even when windows says it can’t.
Sounds nice and I wish it was like that, but people who are not into tech won’t get those messages and wouldn’t care as for them it’s “it’s turning on, I don’t need to do all that”. Remember there’s people out there that do not understand computers in the slightest, and it’s just not there thing, have to much going on, or some other reason.
Plus Linux is far from “I just turn it on and it works” kinda person friendly.
I’m a PC that’s not currently “compatible” with Windows 11, because I’m too lazy/refuse to enable TPM 2.0 in my BIOS.
Given how much of a pain in the ass my work machine is with Win 11 — I’d honestly rather switch to Linux than deal with it on my home system.
I’ve been tinkering with my Steam Deck for almost a year, and haven’t been able to accidentally brick it - it’s definitely come a long way from where it was back in my uni days (early 00s).
I did get TPM 2.0 enabled and the updater still thinks it isn’t there. Linux is now my primary with Win10 as a fallback for the handfull of programs that won’t run acceptably in Wine or Proton. My biggest problem so far is Civilization 6; Aspyr hasn’t updated the Linux build in ages and doing multiplayer with the Windows version via Proton makes it lag with terrible frame rate. Single player is fine, and multi in Win10 is also fine, so I’m not sure what to do about it.
Have you given any thought to switching to a LTSC version of Windows 10 Enterprise? There are a few trade-offs from what I can see, but at least it eliminates the issue of no security updates for up to 5 more years.
I’m still mulling over the pro’s and con’s - curious on what you think.
It’d hopefully allow you to keep Civ6 multiplayer going for the time being until (if/when) the Linux issues get solved?
One of the requirements is full secureboot and recovery arrangements that didn’t exist when I installed back in the 8 days. Now I can reinstall over the old drive and that will do all the plumbing that enables 11. So the hardware is 11 compatible, but the existing software install isn’t.
*Edit to answer the question, no, it’s not too late. Most compatible CPUs have a lesser firmware TPM, but most mobos have a slot for a vendor specific hardware TPM. Which is what I got.
My I7 7700k is a good processor. It serves my needs from office work, to software dev, to gaming, to video production. I’ll eventually retire this machine, but that’s at least a year off, and even then, it’ll be repurposed since it’s an extremely capable machine.
I shouldn’t have to upgrade because MS made an arbitrary decision to not support capable hardware after telling me Win10 was the last Windows OS. Nah, I’m switching everything over to Linux and using the hardware I have now instead of creating e-waste.
Thing is, there’s people out there on windows 10 on a computer without the magic special chip windows 11 demands.
Lots of those people can’t update and lots don’t know about Linux or understand how to even use a USB drive to install it.
Yes it’s easy for us semi tech people, but remember not everyone is into tech or understand how computers works.
People NEED computers to do stuff like applying for jobs, or searching online, or video games with friends.
Those people who don’t have a tpm chip and can’t upgrade will just not and continue using a insecure windows 10 because they don’t know or understand what it is.
Remember Lemmy, just because you understand tech, doesn’t mean everyone knows about it, or can grasp the concepts.
This is true not everyone out there has the capability to go out and have something like Linux, or the best version of windows 10 on their machines. But most people here are either knowledgeable enough, or have enough patience to try something like Linux out. If you know people that are in this position with their current machines from windows 10 to 11,and are not tech savvy, help them, and try not to be patronizing. Help them out by installing something like mint or Ubuntu and walk with them on the system, as many times as needed. If they cannot get used to it or find something that simply won’t work, don’t try to force Linux on them. Just find the best windows 10 version and install it. At some point if something doesn’t work anymore on windows 10 and they want to keep the machine, they will reach out to try Linux again, or, they will try to sell the machine they cannot operate with anymore (or give away, depending on the situation). Either way, help people out but don’t be abrasive if things do not work out the way you wanted.
I wish it was more straightfoward to make vm, customize settings and then transfer that to an external ssd to dual boot, I want to ease into linux but I get confused seeing all the differetn ways to do things and no consensus.
Also people talking about changing Distris all the time, do they retain their data? Is that what a home drive is for? Just asking here since you seem to know lol. Like can you redload your apps, ui, retain your data “easily.” (once you do it once)
My dad has a bunch of old friends that elected me to be their tech support, which makes me have to explain the basics of the basics most of the time. Trust me when I say that a lot of people in these forums have no idea how tech illiterate some people are.
I had a situation years ago where an old guy asked me to reset his android phone. I - unfortunately - complied because I made the mistake of trusting that he knew what he was asking, so I just made sure everything was backed up on his cloud. Result: he lost access to his photos, numbers, etc because he had no idea that he had a gmail account associated to his phone. Fortunately, his daughter knew and remembered the password so he recovered them.
Another situation I had with another guy was having to explain why stremio wouldn’t work on his iphone while his friends (with androids) could use it. Without going into details, he didn’t know what an “OS” was.
Let me repeat it because it’s relevant to this post: the guy didn’t know what an Operative System was. And he’s hardly alone.
In these kind of tech forums, I found that a lot of users don’t truly grasp how tech illiterates can be (and sometimes confuse that for lack of intelligence, but that’s another discussion). It’s hard for them to understand how most people don’t care what OS they are running. A lot of people will continue to use Windows 10 and not care they don’t receive more updates, as far as they are concerned, it still works and lets them do their stuff.
And of course there is an XKCD about this: Average Familiarity (2501)
Title text:
Operative System?
It’s the thing that lets you do the things in your electronic thing
Operating System
Ahh my bad, bad translation
No worries I wasn’t trying to give you shit, I figured it was a translation error
Maybe go and quickly google what OS actually stands for, especially since we were just making fun of those who don’t know.
We were? I wasn’t
bad translation btw. In portuguese we say “sistema operativo”, thus the error
That’s good then.
I went out of my way to get a TPM from my systems OEM. I’m a tech, I’ve built dozens of machines without issue. I personally use a Dell, because I can’t be arsed to deal with it for my own kit.
Granted, the Dell I’m using can easily fit the HEDT description, but still.
I’m still using Windows 10 because fuck Windows 11. I am forced to use that shit for work and I hate it. I’m constantly in need of stuff from the settings/control panel to fix other people’s shit, and every time I go to settings, shit is somewhere different, buttons are moved or entirely missing… It’s a right fucking mess.
On any Windows 10 system, I go to control panel, find the appropriate item, such as programs and features, or network and sharing center, etc… And all the controls are there, working, and haven’t changed in any meaningful way since XP.
The thing that Microsoft seems to have abandoned is sent semblance of consistency. They’re so deep in the shit with their CD/CI with the settings panel that for every feature build of Windows 10/11, the settings menu will have options in dramatically different locations. The main difference between 10 and 11 here is that, in Windows 10, the control panel was still in one piece. In Windows 11, several control panel icons now take you to the settings menu “equivalents” to the cpl you’re looking for.
This is particularly bad with printing. Omg. How tf do I check/change the fucking driver in use for a printer in the fucking Windows 11 settings menu? If I go through what’s left of the control panel, and go to devices and printers, I get taken to the settings menu for devices which includes a section for printers, so I go into printers, and I have to hunt down a moving target for where tf they put the button to open the control panel printers and devices dialog, which seems to change weekly. Then I can open the printer settings dialog and see what driver is in use on the advanced tab, or what fucking port it’s connected to… Which, when you deal with network printers, is a pretty fucking important piece of information. Then, half the time the printer port is a fucking wsd, and I have to go spelunking into the registry to find it’s fucking IP address.
Wsd ports are fine right up until they fuck up, which happens frequently, TCP/IP ports don’t really have any problems at all. So why the fuck are we moving everyone to fucking wsd ports? Where is the benefit? Explain Microsoft! Explain!
It’s so goddamned frustrating to use as a technician. A lot of this stuff doesn’t really apply to steam users or home users in general, because these menus aren’t really looked at a lot. So the TPM requirement is the usual suspect for people’s frustrations with Windows 11.
I wouldn’t give nearly as much of a shit if they would just leave things where they are. I would only need to learn where the buttons and knobs and dialogs are once, and that would be it. But they have a bug shoved so far up their ass about making “improvements” that I can’t rely on anything staying where it is.
Windows: Let me show you an Ad, endeuntured beta tester.
That too. FFS.
I just want the OS to run things, and get out of my way. Windows used to fit that description.
Like seriously, if there was ever a time to do a concerted push for linux, it’s now. Start the campaigns, start the tutorials start the memes and the warnings and get the process down to under an hour. It won’t be a weird thing, it will be the lord and savior allowing your PC to continue even when windows says it can’t.
Sounds nice and I wish it was like that, but people who are not into tech won’t get those messages and wouldn’t care as for them it’s “it’s turning on, I don’t need to do all that”. Remember there’s people out there that do not understand computers in the slightest, and it’s just not there thing, have to much going on, or some other reason.
Plus Linux is far from “I just turn it on and it works” kinda person friendly.
Sadly, it’s the part of keeping it working for the periodic 5 minutes after that that is also a hurdle.
I’m a PC that’s not currently “compatible” with Windows 11, because I’m too lazy/refuse to enable TPM 2.0 in my BIOS.
Given how much of a pain in the ass my work machine is with Win 11 — I’d honestly rather switch to Linux than deal with it on my home system.
I’ve been tinkering with my Steam Deck for almost a year, and haven’t been able to accidentally brick it - it’s definitely come a long way from where it was back in my uni days (early 00s).
I did get TPM 2.0 enabled and the updater still thinks it isn’t there. Linux is now my primary with Win10 as a fallback for the handfull of programs that won’t run acceptably in Wine or Proton. My biggest problem so far is Civilization 6; Aspyr hasn’t updated the Linux build in ages and doing multiplayer with the Windows version via Proton makes it lag with terrible frame rate. Single player is fine, and multi in Win10 is also fine, so I’m not sure what to do about it.
Have you given any thought to switching to a LTSC version of Windows 10 Enterprise? There are a few trade-offs from what I can see, but at least it eliminates the issue of no security updates for up to 5 more years.
I’m still mulling over the pro’s and con’s - curious on what you think.
It’d hopefully allow you to keep Civ6 multiplayer going for the time being until (if/when) the Linux issues get solved?
Or you add the chip and it still doesn’t want to upgrade because you don’t have secure boot enabled.
Can you do that?
Mine is a bios upgrade to add the feature apparently.
But I deliberately left it non-upgraded so I didn’t get forced into 11.
Can I still upgrade or am I too late?
One of the requirements is full secureboot and recovery arrangements that didn’t exist when I installed back in the 8 days. Now I can reinstall over the old drive and that will do all the plumbing that enables 11. So the hardware is 11 compatible, but the existing software install isn’t.
*Edit to answer the question, no, it’s not too late. Most compatible CPUs have a lesser firmware TPM, but most mobos have a slot for a vendor specific hardware TPM. Which is what I got.
If you don’t have a motherboard with a TPM in it by now, then you’re way overdue for an upgrade anyway.
My I7 7700k is a good processor. It serves my needs from office work, to software dev, to gaming, to video production. I’ll eventually retire this machine, but that’s at least a year off, and even then, it’ll be repurposed since it’s an extremely capable machine.
I shouldn’t have to upgrade because MS made an arbitrary decision to not support capable hardware after telling me Win10 was the last Windows OS. Nah, I’m switching everything over to Linux and using the hardware I have now instead of creating e-waste.