“This is how we should order our lives together,” he said. “And frankly, yes, we are going to impose it upon you. If you don’t like it, I’m sorry, but this is good and right and just if it lines up with God’s standards, and I am going to enforce my morality on you in as much as our morality is God’s morality.”
“You should always check yourselves,” he continued. “Do I believe what God believes? Am I defending what God says is good?”
“And if it is, then you should have the courage to say, ‘This is how we’re going to run our town, this is how we’re going to run our county, this is how we’re going to run our state, and this is how we should run the United States of America by legislating the morality that we can find in the Bible.'”
You mean their made up fake Christian values. If an actual Christian saw what these creeps consider Christian values, they’d be very upset. Pretty sure infidelity, bribery, cheating, fraud, name calling, mockery, gambling, false worship, casting out of strangers and all the rest is exactly contradictory to the book they claim to hold in reverence.
All Christian values are made up, bruh. But I get your point.
No, there are.
The “teachings of Jesus” seem just fine: stuff like love thy neighbour no matter what (aka don’t hate minorities), let the one without sins throw rocks first (aka don’t judge), throwing a tantrum at money changers (aka communist).
If only Christians looked up to the one and only character they literally believe is God in human form and try following his actions.
But alas, those Christians are “Christians”, and most know more abot the teachings of Thomas Aquinas than Jesus Christ.
Alas, there are no true scotsmen
Needs to be renamed to “no true Christian” at this point
At what point is something considered an entirely different belief system though?
Part of why there are so many different sects of Christianity is because belief systems can differ quite a lot on what the focus is for followers of the faith.
Even Mormons are considered Christian, but many Christians would put them in their own category since they have an entirely different holy book that they follow.
Maybe it comes back to the word for ‘Christian’ being this less meaningful, all encompassing, definition. In which case, I feel there’s an argument to be made that having at least some other way to show distinction matters, whether that’s a new word or phrase entirely.
For the sake of conversation though, I feel there is some utility in using the word we are already familiar with, in this case ‘Christian’, and making a compelling definition, in the context of the conversation, based on the values echoed in the text. I feel that we can still hold the general understanding that this is a narrow definition, but it’s one made based on those values that we may want to see encouraged.
TL;DR: It’s difficult to have a conversation about any group of people that is made up of a wide assortment of people from different walks of life.
I would have gone with RINO, but I get ya. When is a thing not a thing it claims to be though? What’s that thingy called, because it’s this.
That’s really only true for undefined terms. If I’m scientifically determined to be diabetic, but I say I’m not because I define “diabetes” differently than the medical community at-large, my pancreas still can’t produce insulin. Christians, by every accepted definition, follow the teachings of “Jesus Christ,” hence the name. If any can demonstrably be shown to go directly against those teachings, I’d say the argument that they’re not Christian is pretty solid. It’s only when the claims are defined in non-universally accepted terms that the fallacy exists. Like, “No true Scotsman brushes their bottom teeth before brushing their top teeth,” is obviously not a true statement, but “All true Scotsman have a non-zero amount of ‘Scottish blood,’” is acceptably true as long as “amount of Scottish blood” is actually a determinable value.
Don’t forget child rape and murder
Well, this is the Bible… Didn’t want to get too specific, but there is a little bit of child rape and murder in that book…
These xtianists don’t really seem to give a fuck about the Sermon on the Mount very much.
As opposed to the traditional catholic values of murdering brown people, burning apostates, progroming Jews, policing every aspect of sexuality, and most importantly enforcing a rigid belief in social hierarchy and the divine rights of nobility?
“Sharia law” by any other name.
Sharia Law permits abortions in some cases.
Why would Obama do this?
I remember a particular asshat on DP forums that would try to get me booted all the time, and always crying that there is no such thing as xtian Shariah Law and that calling xtianists talibangelicals was so very unfair and so mean, and oh my god, the civility of it all!
The xtianists definitely have Shariah Law even if, sure, they don’t call it that, duh.
Other than the days they worship and a few other differences about ritual and so on, explain the difference between backward dumbasses of the fundamentalist stripe of either of these Abrahamic religions?
Both groups ache to subjugate women and murder infidels and gays, etc.
Christian? They are a fucking pedophilic ring.
I mean, the Bible doesn’t say it’s against that.
The ironic part is that the one section of the new testament they claim is against hay people is very likely condemning the act of sleeping with child slaves, using a Greek word which has been otherwise lost to history.
At this point I have to believe that it’s a core tenet of the bible.
So someone else commented a long time ago that in america the age of marriage was 7 years old because thats how old someone is when they truly understand what sin is per the Bible.
No idea if true but seems legit ppl would use the Bible to promote this behavior.
In times like this we must remember what the Bible says about things like marriage: One man, one hundred women.
Also, selling daughters, because they’re property! Like slavery, which is also totally fine.
The bible also says it’s just to stomp in the heads of your enemies’ infants, as long as sky-daddy tells you so as a voice in your head :)
Yup. They may be more Christian than we realized.
If they followed the teachings of Jesus I might not mind so much.
— an atheist
EVERYONE MUST LIVE EXACTLY THE SAME WAY AND KILL ANYONE DIFFERENT -Jesus of Nazareth, probably
That love thy neighbor guy must have really hated the minorities, women, gays, and trans. Thats great for me i wont double check or anything.
-someone who never read the Bible and probably cant read in first place
Y’all Qaeda.
I have rarely seen a nation further from “christian values” than the United States at this moment.
Your god deserves to be skull fucked to death. Along with your neo nazi Christian subsect.
When is someone going to get fed up enough and [ Removed by Reddit ] ?
I think you’re confused about which website we’rebon. We’re on Lemmy here. This is a higher class of website. So, the question you should be asking:
When is someone going to get fed up enough and [ Removed by Lemmy ] ?
I expect it’ll be when one of the writing class gets chronic pain or a death sentence diagnosis that could’ve been prevented if healthcare didn’t suck.
Not unlike Luigi is accused, except he’s innocent.
Theocracies must die.
Amen
Bullshit. Trump or his officials are not Christians. Dictator is jusf pretending to be christian but is secretly the anti christ
In his book, “It Can’t Happen Here” (1935), Sinclair Lewis wrote, “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying the cross.”
Only look like 80 years but gonna real, I didnt think the anti christ would be soo like obvious about it. Humanity had such a low bar to overcome.
Christianity has been used to control people for as long as it existed.
If you read revelations it pretty much describes Trump(as the antichrist).
If you actually read Revelations you’ll be surprised that the word antichrist is nowhere to be found.
Stop this Obama-era “they go low, we go high” bullshit! It didn’t even work in those days, it’s just Mitt Romney was both a charisma vacuum, and unlike Trump didn’t hide his theocratic ambitions under multiple layers of post-irony.
All this “they’re not real christians” bullshit led to is the disappearance of religious criticism, and the right immediately hijacking every talking points on what a “good christian” should look like, to further push their theocratic fascism. Secularism? Now it’s a radical christian ideology, because “Obama likes his neighbor”, so we have to accept theocratic fascism, because coMmON SeNsE. At worst this is being pushed so much into the extremes, that nowadays people think christianity was the first (!) religion to outlaw murder, pedophilia, etc.
Are islamist terrorists “fake muslims”, who probably get drunk every day? Are the hindu extremists of India “fake hindus” for being awful to the muslim population? Was Stalin a “fake atheist” for persecuting the church? FUCK NO! All you’re doing is giving an excuse to religious extremists by excluding them from religion the moment they’re not adhering to the model religious person stereotype, so the next generation of them can continue the same fucking bullshit, all because “good christian Obama liked his muslim and atheist neighbor”, and we continue handling the power of irrationalism to theocratic fascists in the hopes of a second Obama.
He’s right, though. Nothing about what they’re doing is even remotely Christian. They’ve been claiming abortion as their central tenet of Christianity, but the bible doesn’t condemn that even once. The bible does tell us thousands of times to help the poor, feed the hungry, etc., but they are strongly against that and see the poor as deserving of that poverty. There are dozens of aspects where they go out of their way to miss the point of Christianity and preach the polar opposite.
They only hijack Christianity as a conservative identity to rally around in order to bind voters to their fundamentally anti-christian cause. Religion to them is a tool for social control, not about honest faith.
And repeating that is important to free believers who fell for their lies. If you allow them to own the label “christian”, you allow them to continue to fool people into supporting them. We have to unmask them, show them for who they really are.
The bible doesnt command us to feed the hungry or care for the poor thousands of times. There a handful of times in the new testament where it does so, but pretending the bible is this spotless pro-humanity text is at best ignorant and at worst misinformation.
Someone counted it. Apparently it’s over 2000 times for helping the poor, and a maximum of 5 times “gay is bad” and in several of those that interpretation is questionable. Zero condemnations of abortions.
The book of Amos starts with God saying he doesn’t want Israel’s prayers and sacrifices because they don’t take care of the poor. It is the primary theme across the entire bible.
I’m not denying there are some questionable parts, but nothing in there is repeated as often as this. Well, maybe praising God.
Forgive me for not taking “someone counted it” as evidence.
And its absolutely not the primary theme of the bible, that is supplication to god in all things.
Saying “starts with” when it doesnt appear until half way into the second chapter is fascinating. Amos is a short book, we’re nearly a quarter of the way through it before the needy are mentioned.
Maybe I’m remembering it in a more condensed form, but Amos mentions mistreatment of the poor several times as reason for the punishment. But what stuck out to me is that all the religious services, songs, offerings etc become worthless in light of their sins, and that it’s the country as a whole that’s held accountable for this. Conservatives sometimes justify their inhuman policies by claiming it’s an individual responsibility to help the poor, and not something for the government to concern itself with, but here it’s the country as a whole that’s held responsible for it.
And it’s not just about selling the poor into slavery, it also mentions taxing the poor, justice for the poor, and corruption. I recall there being explicit mention of feeding widows and orphans, but I can’t find that right now.
The one citation you did give me turned out to be false… I will need actual chapter and verse references before I believe you on any other bible claims.
"We must allow a theocrat to rise to power, because what if there would be a theocrat that would use my interpretation of christianity, which is about kindness and good things, would rise to power?"🤡
For every “love thy neighbor” quote, there’s a quote about violent conversion. For every “pedos must be thrown into the river with a stone tied to them”, there’s a “menstrual marriage”. And while the “turn the other cheek” sounds nice out of context, it was about slaves. These theocrats see you as their literal slaves (!), and I’ve seen my fair share of alt right shitheads using the full quote to justify their tactic of “we go low, you go high”, and then to mock the people who fall for them.
I don’t know where you got that naive quote, but I completely disagree with that. Theocracy corrupts both religion and politics, and it’s important that people see that. They lie and pervert, and that needs to be exposed.
And one vital step in that is to expose their lies, undermine the base they have mislead into supporting them. Don’t allow them to keep that.
CHRISTIANS HAVE STOOD FOR BIGOTRY, FOR REGRESSION, FOR KINGS FOR TWO MILLENNIA . EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN IS A BAD PERSON AND A SUPREMACIST PIECE OF SHIT. RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE LESS MORAL THAN NAZIS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT EVEN TAKE THEIR EVIL ONTO THE THEIR OWN CONSCIENCE, BUT INVENT A FASCIST BIGOT OVERLORD WHO REJOICES WHEN THEY SLAUGHTER CHILDREN.
It is not such a secret.
I still feel obligated to call it out lest stupid people believe their lies
They’re absolutely christian. Its just Christianity has many flavours of evil assholes.
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the Earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the Sons of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.
Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you…
Oh, not these values.
Right wing American politics has made a mockery out of Christianity.
Unironically how these people read that list:
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.
Read: the poor in spirit die first.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Read: We will kill those who mourn
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the Earth.
Read: Once the greenhouse gasses are no longer tolerable. We going to Mars, suckas
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied.
Read: killing those who oppose me is what is righteous.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Read: we don’t even bully the Mexican guy on our squad, he’s pretty cool guy
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Read: white
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the Sons of God.
Read: kill those who oppose you until there is no more opposition and you will become Jesus.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.
Read: God needs me to kill ANTIFA
Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
Read: you have my permission to kill the infidels.
Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you…
Read: don’t question your mission. You and all your pedo friends can fuck teenage girls or something, after you die for this cause.
…yep. those are them alright.
Right wing American politics has made a mockery out of Christianity.
So, they’re the pharisees?
What did Jesus have to say about immigrants?
What did Jesus have to say about taxes?
What did Jesus have to say about retaliation?
What did Jesus have to say about money and what should be done with it if you have it?
What did Jesus say you should do with everything you own?
Jesus was a Communist. Own nothing. Share everything.
They are modern-day pharisees.
Yeah, my question for this was “WHAT Christian values”, because if they were going to push the fundamental teachings of Jesus I’d actually be ok with that. What they really mean though, is to hang crosses and Bibles in every school and then watch the government speed run breaking every one of the 10 commandments, never mind the teachings of JC.
This guy is an Atheist, running a scam, as are MOST religious leaders. They absolutely do not believe in God, or any kind of an afterlife, because if they did, they would NEVER support the obviously heinous behavior of MAGA. They would be too defensive of their immortal soul. The fact that they are jumping in with full support of MAGA’s obviously, cartoonishly evil agenda, proves who they really are.
Religion is a business, and should be treated like one. There is nothing in the Constitution that gives churches some special benefit. In fact, it literally says that the government should not be supporting any religion. So why does the government support religion by making it tax exempt?
EVERY church should be investigated, and most should be abolished as illegal tax avoidance scams. The rest should be heavily taxed, with the tax revenue earmarked for the public good, not military or law enforcement in any way. It should ALL go into the fund for Social Safety Nets, including universal health care.
And it should also be strongly regulated, with their donations being public record. Tithes should be heavily regulated, and the money fully accounted for. All churches should be operated with the same legal obligations as any other business.
I am not so sure about this. At the top, fundamentalist have convinced themselves that God can choose champions who are above all of his rules. They are chosen, they can do whatever the fuck they want. Rest of the people, of course, needs to abide to “God’s rules”.
At the bottom, it’s kept simple: anything and anyone they dislike is anti-christian (that can be stretched to no end).Nonsense, nobody with the intelligence to start a church and convince people to join it, believes that kind of nonsense. It is LITERALLY like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, and INSISTING that our entire society should be configured to follow the rules that Santa Claus and/or the Easter Bunny demands. And who interprets those demands? Those same religious leaders. And surprise! Those demands include doing everything those leaders tell you to do without hesitation or question, and giving them as much money as you can possibly come up with.
It’s a scam, and they KNOW it’s a scam. NONE of them believe in God, or they would be absolutely certain that they are destined for Hell. Or maybe they do, and they know that since they’re going to Hell anyway, they might as well take advantage of the fun on Earth, before they go to their eternity of getting poked in the ass with a pitchfork, or whatever their weird cult believes.
I think it’s a mix, with overlap, and the ratios are tough to determine. Opportunists and believers align in stroking their egos and celebrating human or class exceptionalism. I imagine the tip-top of the pyramid consists primarily of opportunists, but I’d not be surprised if they’ve crafted their own batshit philosophies that justify their imagined superiority. The more dogmatic, rigid, and traditional ideas are reserved for the plebs.
Also, I don’t think that intelligence obviates the ego; in fact, I wager it can lead to an even more spurious web of justification, like epstein and the dark enlightenment bros. People are crazy and environmental chaos will amplify it.
100% - I grew up in this.
They live in “feelings”. You go to church, you raise your hands during worship and there’s a collective weirdness where you “feel” like you’re “in gods presence”.
Because of this feeling they get to be the worst humans imaginable because every Sunday they get the feel goods and Jesus loves them and they literally do not believe they’ve done anything wrong because of it.
Horrible horrible people.
“Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.” - Denis Diderot
