- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
Last year the U.S. experienced something that hasn’t definitively occurred since the Great Depression: More people moved out than moved in. The Trump administration has hailed the exodus—negative net migration—as the fulfillment of its promise to ramp up deportations and restrict new visas. Beneath the stormy optics of that immigration crackdown, however, lies a less-noticed reversal: America’s own citizens are leaving in record numbers, replanting themselves and their families in lands they find more affordable and safe.
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The price of land in Sweden increased 10x the last 3 months. Now i see who is buying. This is clearly the time to feel lucky being in Europe.
No borders but damn, you have to support your local antifa if you have left your fellows alone
Where would I go if I migrated away? Most of the world is falling into authoritarianism as the child protection laws and the attempts to effectively ban OpenPGP encryption have proven. Not only that, most of us Americans only know English and a bit of Spanish (if even that).
So, even if I moved away and abandoned my friends and family to face the fascist wolves without me, then I’d only be delaying the inevitable. I’d only encourage you to move away if you’re trans, but otherwise we must hold the line here no matter how tempting it is to move away from it.
Most of the world? No. You just need to do more research. But yes, moving abroad is hard and offersno guarantees.
“Most of the world” was a little hyperbolic admittedly
Not really.
Why should I leave? They’re the ones who suck
Same reason conservatives don’t want conservative women.
They don’t want something that fits their interests and opinions.
They want to beat and conquer something that thinks differently from them, and mold them into something that is subservient to their interest and opinions.
there’s at least 200 other countries that are at least as shitty as christo-fascists wish this one were. WHY CANT THEY MOVE.
Because those countries don’t have football and Hooters.
I think you’re being extremely generous to America here. Not to mention there’s not 200 other countries in the world.
A recent bill in Canada restored Canadian citizenship to thousands of people living abroad. I’m helping my friend move to Canada after claiming her citizenship and giving her a place to live. After she stays here three years, all her children get the same opportunity to claim citizenship. Am I operating an Underground Railroad?!
I feel people tend to forget that Canada almost voted in a Trump clone.
Ontario is governed by a Trump clone, as is Alberta.
Like, things can be bad in different ways. It’s not meaningful to describe every corrupt politician as a Trump clone, Trump didn’t invent sucking, and his form of suck is pretty unique.
Oh, we’ve commonly elected people just as evil as Trump. Just not as stupid. Meanwhile, we threw away our pretense of “rule of law” at the Toronto G20 in 2010 just so Harper could impress China, and no following government ever did a damn thing about it.
But if you’re talking about the last election, it was not even close, there was no “almost” about it.
Doug Ford is far dumber than Trump.
I don’t think he’s low-IQ-dumb at all. I think he’s the shrewdest and most effective political manipulators Ontario has seen in my entire politically aware life. I think he has certain pathological drives and values that cause him to do things that any decent and informed person would find entirely contrary to the public good, but I don’t think he does any of them because he doesn’t know better.
Is that a “fuck trumpism with blood as the lube” “no almost” or an “all aboard the fascism-train” “no almost”?
There was no Trump-like candidate that had a chance in hell in the last Federal election. It was a historic loss for the conservatives.
Trump saying that he was going to take Canada over probably did Canada a favor. It’s hard to say the US is going in the right direction. with a far right, autocrat in power. Your conservatives can’t emulate that then.
On the other hand, a Prime Minister with majority confidence has essentially unchecked power and can author and then pass any legislation she wants. The Canadian Prime Minister’s office is far more powerful than the American President’s office and we are perfectly able to dip in and out of tyranny as fashion dictates.
If ı would get a job offer with 100k$ ,I would still not consider on USA
100k isn’t that much money over here.
what is the minimum threshold ?
100k USD is barely anything in a big city.
what is the minimum threshold ? assume florida
Michael Green, a really big [Wallstreet portfolio manager](https://www.vice.com/en/article/is-140000-the-new-poverty-line-for-americans/], says that 140,000 might be the new poverty line. So, that might be a peetty good guess?
Does this number reflect only people who left by choice, or does it also include those who have been deported? The composition of this group would be interesting to see.
Trump has deported fewer people than Biden (I think? Definitely fewer than Obama) so, even if it did include people being deported, it still wouldn’t change the takeaway as far as I can see: Americans are willingly getting the fuck out in record numbers.
Unless you’re focusing on the “all the way back to the Great Depression” part more than recent history.
Also mandatory “fuck Donald Trump” disclaimer, my point isn’t that he’s better than Biden or Obama. If anything my point is that they’re all the same where it counts.
Trump has deported fewer people than Biden
I don’t think we know those numbers, and may never know. He’s disappearing people to other countries without tracking them. Why do you think this is true?
Trump hides the numbers because they’re short of his stated goal of 1 million deportations per year or whatever. Part of the reason he’s deporting fewer people, despite plainly more aggressive / unhinged tactics, is because fewer people are coming into the US because both of them made it more of a shithole. Why do you think he wouldn’t put his name on something “huge” and “bigger than Biden” if he could?
Man how you guys leaving? I’d love to leave
emigrated to Spain in 23, took a remote job and was able to finangle a visa through their DNV
Many Americans are, ironically, moving to Mexico.
And often (but of course not always) bringing gentrification and white supremacy bullshit with them.
You must be kidding.
**American “Digital Nomads” Swarm Mexico City, Angering Locals | The Daily Show **
Rich muricans are leaving the US, most can barely leave the state.
MASSIVE EXODUS!
single digit change in migration patterns
It’s pure hysterical clickbait. The far more newsworthy headline would be about people declining to immigrate to the US, as the Feds add more and more foreign nations to its shit list. Very obvious that Trump (by way of Steven Miller) wants the US to be Whites Only.
But they idea that people are leaving in droves requires you to believe that’s a viable option for anyone.
Yeah, this isn’t cheap at all. It’s either a huge chunk of money up front or you have to uproot and move your family only taking what you can afford to the next country, a huge upheaval, with probably no support network at all where you move to. Ans that’s just residency, you’re not a citizen until you’ve put in years and meet whatever citizenship requirements.
Why would the rich leave? Don’t they benefit from Trumps policies like tax breaks and stuff? Or do you just mean the moderately ‘normal’ rich people with ‘only’ 6-figure incomes?
Why would the rich leave?
Because they can afford to escape the bedlam. Nobody wants to be in Minneapolis right now. Nevermind LA, Portland, or Charlotte.
If you’ve got enough money to put up in a hotel for a month or friendly relatives in another state to crash with, it sounds far preferable to dealing with ICE agents clogging your streets and ramming your car. Doubly so if you’re living in the US on a temporary or revocable permit. Who is holding a Student Visa or Green Card that feels safe in any of these cities right now? They’re snatching neuroscience students out of Columbia University student dorms, ffs.
The super-rich are right at home, yeah.
It might help home prices a bit. I mean, there’s not much we can hope for in this world anymore but affordable housing would be cool.
Not if private equity keeps buying up the houses 🥲
We could disincentivise that if we actually had any sway on policy.
I think my plan B if I get laid off is to cash out everything and flee. Not too sure where, but I don’t have a lot of hope with the current administration or job market.
They’re fleeing
Wish I could leave. This is going to get bad …
My husband and I are moving to Mérida, Yucatán, México in April. We don’t feel safe in Los Angeles anymore. And despite all the stuff going on in Mexico, Mérida is one of the safest cities in all the Americas.
I’m in the PV area. Trust me “all the stuff going on in Mexico” was a brief temper tantrum that lasted a few hours and some cars were burned after the head guy was taken out. Despite what English media wants to tell you, Mexico is safer today than it was before the events of Sunday.
Thanks for sharing, and that’s good to hear. My husband was saying stuff was being blown out of proportion on US news outlets, too.
Beautiful place to nice to tbh, what would be your monthly total expenses be moving to Mexico vs America?
I think comparing those relatively their respective median wages makes the more sense
beyond that, mksg monthly expenses I see don’t ammortize the costs of buying stuff like phones and other consuemer eletronics and/or appliances which are unfortanely a necessity that one day will to be replaced
You don’t need to buy new phones or computers as long as they’re GSM phones. You might need new power supplies, or more probably just a plug adapter. You will need to replace any appliances that run on AC if the frequency is different (50 vs 60 cycles/sec). But major appliances are generally already in an apartment or house (depending on the custom in the country you’re moving to), which leaves things like toasters and microwaves which aren’t exorbitantly expensive.
Incidentally, mobile phone service fees are much lower than in the UK. In England, I pay the equivalent of USD $11/mo for unlimited texts and voice calls and 5 GB of mobile data. Coverage and call quality are better too. ISP charges are also lower and connection speeds are good, as long as you avoid the big providers, which are evil and have poor quality of service.
When doing international moves, which I’ve done several times in my life, a good starting principle is YAGNI: Ya Ain’t Gonna Need It. Bring irreplaceable personal items, clothes, maybe kitchenware. Big furniture, cars, etc: forget about those. Our first move filled up a container. Subsequent moves were increasingly small palletized LCL (less-than-container-load) in size.
The big hurdles aren’t moving stuff around. They’re getting residency, setting up bank accounts and finding decent work. I initially took a slightly less senior position, but quickly climbed the ladder to where I was before. This, despite being quite old for my line of work. In previous international moves, I worked for multinationals which handled immigration matters and moving, though it was up to me to get residency whne I was there long enough.
Americans are immigrating to other countries, they just like to call themselves X-Pats® because they think immigrant is a dirty word
Many said people are moving to avoid this type of narrow minded perspective from others in the US… Educated folks know anti-immigration is a tactic of emotional control by the ruling class.
I’m going to be a pedant and say they are emigrating to other countries.
E.g. Fewer people are immigrating to the US as it speed runs fascism. Many Americans, however, are emigrating to other countries.
Emigrate is to leave ones country to live in another, immigrate is to come to a country to live.
And yapping on twitter complaining about the locals and missing their life back home. #TakeMeBack
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No, no! They are “replanting themselves and their families”.
You got to have a way to do it though. You either have to have a job already lined up or you have to be under 30 so you could work some crappy job for 2 years or you have to be independently wealthy. The average Joe working at the Ford factory isn’t going to be going anywhere anytime soon.
The average Joe working at the Ford factory
That isn’t the average Joe though, not by a long shot.
The average is the average Joan working as a cashier.
At least you can be certain the Americans who are disgusted enough with their country to make the non-trivial effort of uprooting themselves are good folks, and they’ll be a net positive for whichever new society they choose to become part of.
True. Side effect is probably that the usa sinks faster with each good person leaving. Still it’s hard to blame them for leaving.
How else do we get to Idiocracy faster?
I’m doing my part!
the usa sinks faster with each good person leaving
They get what they voted for.
I’m so sick of reading this type of comment. Trump got 49.8% of the vote. That means Harris and 3rd party voters combined were a majority of voters. And so many people are disenfranchised here for BS reasons that I’m sure Trump would have lost if all the people who wanted to vote were able to.
I understand why foreigners would have a lot of hate for America, but please try to focus that hate on our elites, who set the rules for our sham democracy, propagandize the shit out of us via ownership of most of our media, and are responsible for our Imperialist crimes.
The average American gets virtually no say in what our government does to us or to the rest of the world.
Trump got 49.8% of the vote.
That in itself is an harrowing statistic.
“Math is hard”, eh? 🤌🏼
“If you count third party candidates who have absolutely no hope of winning, it turns out that Trump didn’t win the popular vote in 2024. Sure, more people voted for him than voted for the perfectly normal democratic candidate, but if you add her votes to the votes for the Green party candidate, the Libertarian Party candidate, the Socialism and Liberation party candidate, and RFK Jr. Combined, they all got very slightly more votes than Trump. So, America isn’t cooked.”
So, America isn’t cooked.
No, it’s only very slightly almost cooked. Nice.
I guess murican politics are fucked up (no news there), otherwise maybe the barely majority could’ve banded up and formed a government. Happened in Portugal a while back when the right was elected but had a minority, so the left got together and formed government instead.There are no institutional mechanisms in American politics to make that happen. We don’t have a parliamentary system. (I wish we did).
This pretends that Harris wasn’t a ghoul as well. See Gaza, immigration, militarism, etc.
America is a one party state, and in their typical extravagance, has two of them.
Agreed
try to focus that hate on our elites
“The Epstein Class”
Not to mention that these “elites” don’t respect borders, so properly identifying them as the issue and fixing it so they lose power/influence in your country, could have cascade effects, even in the originating country.
Because if you think America is isolated in our shitty politics, every other citizen from other countries are going to have a rude awakening when the technocrats/oligarchs have ruined or grow bored of the US and move on to ruin your country (see Venezuela, Palestine, or any country that signed a free trade agreement with us that are now getting hit with tariffs).
Their class solidarity is international, and so must ours be.
63% of US population voted. Less than half of that group voted for Harris. That means at least 68.5% (but really more) either did not vote for Harris to mitigate the risk of Trump or actively choose to vote for him.
Fuck them all. 31.5% of the population is worth a shit. And even then some of them are anti-socialist libs… so I don’t even like all of them either.
Also Georgia found evidence that musk rigged it.
I assume you’re counting the non votes as votes for Trump. Disingenuous at best.
Unless we’re criticizing third party voters, of course.
It’s absolutely not disingenuous. It’s what happened.
Yep, since that’s what they were.
Real quick. Quantify for me (since you seem to have a link for everything) how many of those people who didn’t vote but were eligible lived in places where their district was gerrymandered to hell? Or where they live the state had engineered it to be impossible to vote (limiting voting locations (making sure the lines would be astronomical and the weather would do the work for them), preventing people from bussing people to voting offices. Limiting or completely removing the ability to vote by mail. I’ll wait.
🦗🦗🦗🎶
Well…yes and no. If I recall well, little over 60% voted. Slightly more than half for trump. So a bit over 30% of the american voters voted for this shit. Those 40% that not voted… They could have made a difference but did not bother
I have
a friend… A person I know, who is dating a good friend of mine. He’s from California originally. He convinced my friend to not vote because Kamala had “bad policies” when she was an AG. Blah blah pot. Blah blah guns… blah blah excuse.Now he’s vocal about Trump’s policies, blah blah guns. Blah blah free speech, blah blah ICE.
I’m like mofo do you even hear yourself? She wasn’t perfect. She made mistakes… But nope couldn’t vote for the woman.
Shits infuriating.
It’s perfectly legitimate to vote third party in a non-swing state to express your disgust with the state of The Democrats. However, doing that in a swing state is basically just punching yourself in the face.
In no case should you choose not to vote because that registers as apathy rather than disgust with the choices.
So they both voted for Trump. There’s no debate. That’s what happened.
A lot of people wanted to vote but couldn’t because they were purged off of voter rolls.
Nope. Less than half voted for Trump. He didn’t even have a majority of people who cast a vote for president. And a third of the country isn’t eligible to vote due to age.
So just under 20% of Americans voted for him.
The 40% that didn’t vote would probably have also broke 50/50 for Trump vs. Harris if they’d bothered to vote. But, most of them probably live in states like Massachusetts or Wyoming where one party’s lead is so huge that their vote really wouldn’t have had any effect.
Stop deflecting and trying to blame non-voters when the real problem is the people who voted for Trump.
Every abstained vote is a vote for trump, so 68% of the country voted for Trump.
Asinine reasoning. If Harris had won, they’d all have been a vote for her.
But they didn’t, and she didn’t, so they weren’t.
No, if literal Hitler is running in the election and you don’t vote, the vote counts for Hitler.
Trust me when I say I have wrestled with this for a long time now, having to live among people who either voted for the fascists or didn’t vote at all. There are a few key factors in the US that just don’t make it that simple:
- Our population is heavily propagandized to accept fascist behavior and rhetoric as normal, or even patriotic
- People in lower socioeconomic neighborhoods/cities struggle to see much of a difference between the parties because they are often living under full time military-style occupation by their local police force, even when their local government is run by Democrats. The tactics ICE is using against middle class white protestors are not new. They’re just new to middle class white people
- A lot of people with multiple kids and jobs, especially in states controlled by Republicans, are not reasonably able to vote because they don’t have the time and their state/local governments go out of their way to make it difficult
If you go from abstaining to voting for Trump, then you’ve voted twice!
They voted as a country. The country as an entity wanted Trump and it got him.
Only the losers in any election starts itemizing. I get it: Trump is about as legit as Hitler in terms of absolute percentage of people who voted for him vs. the entire pool of potential electors.
But that’s not how it works: he won as per the rules of the elections, and now he’s become the country’s choice and its problem.
Fitting username.
To add: we’ve been voting on how our elections work since 2000. The problem was obvious then and we kept excusing candidates who support FPTP.
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That’s a very naive point of view. It’s incredibly difficult to move countries and takes either a stable overseas job or lots of money.
Interesting, one could also make this point for immigrants in/coming to America. Just wish more of us realized that before voting in 2024…even better in 2016.
Yeah, there are lots of really awesome Americans out there.
Unfortunately there are some incredibly shitty ones who have managed to get control of everything.
There are also a lot of otherwise decent Americans who are propagandized beyond all reason. The machinery for manufacturing consent in this country is sophisticated and very well funded.
Not necessarily. There are Americans moving to Mexico and causing problems there.
Digital nomads in Mexico City
That’s actually a quite condescending thing to say. And also not a surprise at all.
