LOCKED: people are getting too heated over a silly meme
go to s/parenting if you want to have a serious conversation about parenting
If he isn’t saying “You can have your phone back when you empty the dishes” over and over again, it’s a grand dad fail.
“Maybe you’ll find your phone after emptying the dishwasher” :D
the problem is, how many times does he have to ask for it to happen? Why should he have to beg the child to assist in the house? Does the child not benefit from all that is around them including having a phone paid for?
So why does he need to ask over and over again?
Because the parents haven’t helped the child understand that being part of a family is being part of a team, and that the kid should help their team.
That said, it is hard. Kids, just like adults, get tired and don’t wanna do things. Gotta be patient and make achievable goals for them to help with. Start small.
Because the flip side of expecting a kid to contribute is being required to teach how to do it and the habits to actually do it.
Kids are not going to learn how to do things out of logic, empathy and understanding… they’re kids… they’re dumb and selfish. They learn the habits through self-interested rewards, like getting a phone back.
No they’re not, and no they don’t:
https://childmind.org/article/when-should-you-come-between-a-teenager-and-her-phone/
One of the basic rules of effective discipline is to make any punishment related to the misbehavior. “If your child violates curfew, taking away the phone is completely unrelated to that behavior,” says Dr. Peters. “You’re not connecting with the kid. You are making them feel bad, which you think is helping them learn, but in fact is helping them learn to be sneaky or learn that you are the punisher.”
You can teach children, but not like that and not immediately. While chores should be done. So at first it’s fine to force a chore.
Unless it is to save a life or avoid grievous harm, force is unacceptable.
What about forcing hygiene?
grievous harm
It’s an exaggeration.
If your child is hitting a playmate on the forehead with a shovel in the sandbox, you should forcibly stop him, even though the harm is not grievous.
I forgot that you can’t teach kids, and that what you have to do is just let them realize the personal utility of proactively emptying the dishwasher.
You should just have kids, never teach them anything and get irritated at them when they don’t figure out how to do things when you want.Thank you.
You should just have kids, never teach them anything and get irritated at them when they don’t figure out how to do things when you want.
That is exactly how I learned how to feel guilt and shame instead of how to cook and clean.
You people, who obviously don’t have kids, are insufferable. How do you think teaching works? You just tell a kid something and then boom, its learned?
When you went to school, did the teacher just tell you things and then you perfectly understood them and remembered it? Or did you have exercises, practices, tests, projects… ya know things to do to apply and possibly fail at?
Because most people, especially children, domt learn things by just telling them. They domt get it. Until they can relate to it personally. Its the whole “dont touch the stove” part of learning.
You people obviously live in some fantasy or are complete morons. Take your pick.
You people, who obviously don’t have kids, are insufferable.
Not as insufferable as people who actively defend child abuse. There is a reason I chose not to have kids. There are too many victims already.
I have kids, they help cook and clean, they’re beautiful and I don’t abuse them.
They have perfect grades, and don’t have any trouble with authority. They understand that their teachers work for them as much as they work for their teachers.
Unfortunately, it seems not everyone on this earth can be smart and capable. I am very fortunate to be both and have children who are both as well.
Kids, like people, learn all kinds of things in all kinds of ways.
Mine just want to help, and I’ve been told early on that most kids are like that. Let them help when they want to help, even if they’re making your task harder, and they’ll happily do it when they’re actually capable.
Children aren’t slaves.
Cleaning up the dishes from a meal you ate but did not put anything into isn’t being a fucking slave.
Do your chores
I simply said “children aren’t slaves,” and you took that personally.
Do your own chores, you chose to make the mess.
Then cook your own food. You sound exactly like the spoiled little bitch kids that my friends raise with the same attitude. Worst kids I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna have a hard life when they hit adulthood and realize they actually have to do things for themselves.
Then cook your own food.
I do. I buy it, I cook it, and I clean up after myself, no dishwasher. It’s difficult because I associate these chores with guilt and punishment because my parents were also authoritarian and abusive.
You sound exactly like the spoiled little bitch kids that my friends raise with the same attitude. Worst kids I’ve ever seen.
You sound unhinged.
They’re gonna have a hard life when they hit adulthood and realize they actually have to do things for themselves
They almost certainly already have a hard life. Stupid, selfish parents don’t consider how much pain they’re passing along by creating life they can’t care for in a society that expects us all to work to death while the planet burns around us.
Neither are parents.
Neither are parents.
They chose the circumstances, they chose to reproduce. The child did not choose to be born.
Does that mean that a child is absolved of any chores they don’t like?
Generally, yes. Children should have autonomy over their own selves. The challenge for parents is to teach children why chores are worth doing and how to do them without feeling like work or punishment. If parents are not up for that challenge, they probably should not have kids.
Does the kid also say this if it comes to clean up the gear in the sports club?
Does the kid also say this if it comes to clean up the gear in the sports club?
Good question. If the child chooses to join a sports club, presumably they are expected to clean the equipment. If they don’t like that, they can choose to leave the club or even get kicked out depending on how many times it happens and the club’s policies, which are presumably written somewhere.
The child did not choose to be born. They have to follow orders under threat of punishment. If they don’t like it, they can’t legally leave. There is no written contract, parents can set and change expectations arbitrarily. It’s a very different situation.
My parents used to pull shit like this when I was growing up. All I learned from it was that they are horrible people.
And now you’re 17 and your own man?
With my own apartment, bills and therapist too!
They were horrible people because you were a lazy fuck that didn’t do what you were asked to?
Nope, it’s because they used “I will steal your stuff, violate your trust, manipulate you, and lie to you” to try to “teach a lesson”.
You don’t own anything as a kid. Pay your own phone bill and you can call it yours
Any excuses for the other 3 things in that list?
Three things? He told her to do the dishes then took her phone when she didn’t. That’s exactly one thing.
I listed 4 things. “I will steal your stuff, violate your trust, manipulate you, and lie to you”. You only addressed “steal your stuff”. I’m waiting to see how you to excuse the other 3.
I mean, if that’s how you view it, that’s. you problem. You having the privilege of a phone as a condition of doing your chores isn’t “taking your stuff” or “violating your trust”.
The chores are a condition of the privilege. You not keeping up your end is violating the agreement. Not the other way around.
You sound spoiled.
When a parent gives their child trust, privacy, help, or even a phone, it is an expression of their love, and for it to be healthy it can’t be transactional.
A child’s clothes are THEIR clothes. A parent guides, helps, and is in charge of it, but it BELONGS to the child. Same goes for ALL their posessions.
Daaamn, that was one hell of a leap.
Stop normalizing abuse.
Making kids do chores and contribute to the household isn’t abuse you pussy
Dude, practically an entire generation was given a smartphone with games and full internet without restrictions, became so fucking addicted to it that they suffer mental health issues and get traumatized if it’s taken away from them and think it’s like cutting someone’s hand off.
You’re not going to convince them of anything if it means not letting the kid have a phone 24/7 without restrictions.
Asking them isn’t abuse. Making them is. Stealing their things and causing them distress is.
I’m sorry your parents mistreated you. Stop pretending it’s normal.
My parents were fine, and now I’m a successful adult that can live on my own.
No, making your kid do chores as a condition of the free life they have isn’t abuse. Stop being a pussy
My parents were fine, and now I’m a successful adult that can live on my own.
And you have nothing better to do than defend child abuse?
Out of curiosity, did they hit you? It’s the first thing that comes to mind when you try the “I turned out fine” defense.
No, making your kid do chores as a condition of the free life they have isn’t abuse.
Making them do work for you is abuse. They don’t have a free life. They can’t move out and they’re punished if they don’t follow orders.
Stop being a pussy
Am I cat, or a vagina? I’m fond of both, so I’m unclear on the insult here. Are you a playground bully? Did your parents forget to help you grow up?
Making them do work for you is abuse
For you? It’s for them also. It’s for the family.
“I’m making demands and playing manipulative games with adolescents. WHY WON’T THEY OBEY?”
Enjoy the nursing home, grandpa.
How would you recommend he have proceeded? Lmao
He could try emptying the dishwasher.
Shouldn’t she have some responsibilities? Why not expect her to do her share of the chores in a house in which she lives?
Because that’s an awful way of raising children, especially girls. Unless it’s a life-or-death situation, allow your children to say no. If you want them to help out anyway (and you should, those are skills they’ll need as adults) that’s also really easy to encourage by simply not being an ass about it, ask them instead of commanding them. They’ll probably say yes far more often than they’ll say no.
Literally says “I asked her to do it 4 hours ago.” Emphasis mine.
Part of being an adult is taking responsibility for your household. Saying no is an important thing to learn but so is keeping your house clean. Much better to learn from loving parents than by frustrated roommates or partner.
“Loving” parents who steal your possessions if you don’t obey their commands? Authoritarianism is not love. Children are people, not tools.
Again it was an ask. Pretty normal for kids to say yes and forget. There’s no indication the phone won’t be returned very easily.
This is more prank than whatever abusive nonsense some of yall seem to be envisioning.
And there’s no indication of her response, so I’m assuming it was “no.” And now he’s punishing her for that response, which is sending exactly the wrong message.
We obviously don’t have the full context here. It’s possible that she’s never lifting a finger in which case fair enough (still a bad way to go about it, but you’d need to do something in that case), but with the information the post is giving I’m going side with the child.
More likely she just forgot or didn’t care.
Tell me you don’t have kids, without saying it.
Children did not choose to be born. Children are unfairly exploited by stupid, selfish parents.
All we have is a (probably joke) tweet, but stealing someone’s phone is wrong.
This is hilarious. Asking a kid to do basic household chores like emptying the dishwasher is not exploitation. It’s not like they make them work a real job, and then take all the money.
And nobody’s phone has been stolen, unless that kid bought the phone with their own money, and pay the monthly bill. Otherwise, they don’t own that phone, they use it at the pleasure of the account holder.
Asking a kid to do basic household chores like emptying the dishwasher is not exploitation.
Correct. Asking is fine.
It becomes exploitation when they punish her for declining.
anti-natlist bullshit.
Calling the parents selfish because they want the child to chip in to the wellbeing of the household that they also benefit from. And your response is to instead let the child be unbelievably entitled and selfish. I wonder how a child like that will act when they become an adult. Entirely self-centered, refusing to work with others, only acting on self-interest…
I wonder how a child like that will act when they become an adult. Entirely self-centered, refusing to work with others, only acting on self-interest…
You’re describing the grandfather.
Stop normalizing child abuse.
you’re an idiot. fullstop. Equating abuse to “doing the dishes” is a gross minimization of actual abuse. You belittle real victims by being a petulant child.
Emptying the dishwasher = Child Abuse?
LMFAO!
If the child didn’t pay for the phone or the service to use it, they aren’t entitled to it. They are granted use of it by the owner that can be revoked at anytime.
Consequences aren’t child abuse.
Treating one’s children like contractees is the height of shitty parenting.
So is not holding your children to any expectation of responsibility.
Consequences for what? Declining a request?
Or was it an order?
Either way, the consequence is unrelated. It is abusive.
https://childmind.org/article/when-should-you-come-between-a-teenager-and-her-phone/
One of the basic rules of effective discipline is to make any punishment related to the misbehavior. “If your child violates curfew, taking away the phone is completely unrelated to that behavior,” says Dr. Peters. “You’re not connecting with the kid. You are making them feel bad, which you think is helping them learn, but in fact is helping them learn to be sneaky or learn that you are the punisher.”
You’re implying children should not take part in the chores of a household and should not have consequences for not following the rules is a house, Based on the context of this post and your other replies.
Great questions. I would not ask those questions of, nor accept advice from, authoritarian murder-slaves. Grandpa needs to show some respect for the other people in the house he lives in too.
Cool none of those situations are happening. So by your own words you should be able to answer their questions.
none of those situations are happening.
Nah, there are four lights. Play this stupid game elsewhere.
I get that you don’t like the Marine in the op, but the commenter your responded to hasn’t said they were in the Marines and I assume you aren’t a baby murdering drone. So answer is question. Shouldn’t they be expected to contribute to the chores of their household?
I’m pretty sure the tweet is comedy not actual parenting advice
Tell that to the people crawling out of the woodwork in this thread to unironically defend it as such.
Lots of salty 14 year olds around here tonight too for some reason.
It’s amazing how the inability to convince someone to do the dishes without authoritarian hammer-dropping brings so many people together!
lol wut
people who don’t have kids and think like “well, I’d do it like this” are so fucking hilarious. Yaokay buddy, do it then.
People who have kids just to use them for cheap labor shouldn’t have had kids to begin with. Mr. “no such thing as an ex marine” is just passing off abuse as discipline, like what was done to him.
As someone who was used for cheap labor as a child, emptying the dishwasher is a normal and reasonable chore.
yeah it takes like 5 minutes lol
Than grandpa can just do it instead of playing this barely disguised manipulative bullshit.
It is good and normal for children to do reasonable chores, or else they grow up into useless adults who think emptying the dishwasher is tantamount to slavery.
for real. The number of entitled little shits in this whole thread is proof that we’re doomed.
It doesn’t really work like that. If you force people from childhood to do the chore, you increase the chance they resent it later in life so much, they stop doing it altogether the second they can.
The way you teach people to do something is positive reinforcement and positive associations. It’s very basic thing that most people ignore because it’s harder to do than yell at kids and force them with the threat of punishment. That’s because people who got yelled and forced as kids grow up into useless adults.people who got yelled and forced as kids grow up into useless adults.
I got yelled at and forced as a kid, and much worse, and I grew up to be probably the single most useful adult I know. I didn’t resent cooking because I was forced to cook, I don’t resent taking out the trash because I was forced to, or washing the dishes, or yardwork, or laundry.
These are things that need to get done, and without someone to do them for me I need to do them. If you incentivize learning those habits with praise and an ice cream cone, you just teach the child that if they don’t feel like ice cream they don’t have to do anything.
Seems to me that you’re wildly exaggerating a fairly normal situation, and making unfounded generalizations about parenting and child psychology. Yes positive reinforcement is generally good, and no I wouldn’t recommend my draconian upbringing, but the world is not black and white. There is a time for positive reinforcement, and a time for negative reinforcement.
Nobody said it wasn’t. Maybe you should have been taught critical thinking skills instead of how to defend bad parenting.
You did, in the comment I responded to.
People who have kids just to use them for cheap labor shouldn’t have had kids to begin with. Mr. “no such thing as an ex marine” is just passing off abuse as discipline, like what was done to him.
You’re calling this situation “abuse”, which is outrageously out of touch with reality.
Emptying the dishwasher of dishes they ate food off of, that they didn’t pay for, or prepare, isn’t “cheap labor” or “abuse,” it’s responsibility.
Teaching kids how to clean up after themselves, cook, do laundry, etc. isn’t “cheap labor,” it’s teaching them how to not live like pigs.
Stealing their phone does not teach them to clean up after themselves.
https://childmind.org/article/when-should-you-come-between-a-teenager-and-her-phone/
One of the basic rules of effective discipline is to make any punishment related to the misbehavior. “If your child violates curfew, taking away the phone is completely unrelated to that behavior,” says Dr. Peters. “You’re not connecting with the kid. You are making them feel bad, which you think is helping them learn, but in fact is helping them learn to be sneaky or learn that you are the punisher.”
You have to misrepresent my argument and mischaracterize the actions of the people involved in order to make your point; your argument is entirely without merit.
how old are your kids?
Lol I see the nasty comments you left elsewhere in the thread. Get blocked.
so, none then. Right?
You have no kids, or experience to speak from. So, you’re just speaking out of your ass about what other people should do. Typical.
Dude they have a dishwasher.
As someone who had to do the dishes growing up or get the belt, I literally asked for a dishwashing machine as a kid.
Emptying the dishes is about as light a chore as possible, especially at 15.
If you think that qualifies as “labor”, I’d hate to know what your house smells like.
Yet another person misrepresenting my argument in order to have anything to argue against. Like, lol did you not read any of the other comments and see how far that got them? Off with you now.
Emptying the household dishwasher isn’t generating capital
Money is just a stand-in for time. He’s wasting someone else’s so he doesn’t have to spend his.
It’s a household. Why shouldn’t the 15 year old be expected to participate? Why is it the _grand_father’s responsibility to manage everything?
Have you tried reading the rest of the thread?
Like your incoherent ramblings about authoritarianism?
For what my kid costs me I could hire a full time live in helper. And have some left over. ‘Cheap’ labour, hah.
Once you have children, you exist to give everything you have to their benefit. If there’s any such thing as immortality in this world, children are it. Stop thinking of your relationship with them as transactional, and at least give them the braindead animal level benefit of thinking of them as your own flesh and blood. That’s a biological fact, and if you don’t comprehend it then your mind is behind your very genes, and you have some learning to do.
Stop thinking of your relationship with them as transactional,
I don’t. You’re the one who brought economic value into the relationship.
You’re the one who brought economic value into the relationship.
For what my kid costs me
Lol. lmao even.
cheap labor
I like the lack of self awareness.
You are an insufferably entitled brat. Grow up.
yappy hand gesture
you clearly dont have kids, so maybe you shouldnt be so involved in this conversation.
It’s called empathy. Fuck you for normalizing abuse and trying to silence valid criticism.
i was actually abused and exploited by my parents. you are mocking real abuse and trauma.
I was also abused. Disturbing lack of empathy from you, you should talk to someone about that.
You’re clearly more interested in self-righteousness than in the actual merits of any of the things being discussed. I’m going to disinvolve you at this time.
There seem to be several people here who definitely do not have children, who therefore really cannot speak from the lived experiences of parents in their outrage.
Part of a parents responsibility is preparing their child to participate in the real world, on their own. Especially when one’s children reach their teenage years, they need to understand having responsibilities that they need to do in a timely manner. Responsibilities that they do not care for are still responsibilities. That is literally what being an adult is about. They should be given all of the love and affection that a parent can provide, but structure is a must. Losing privileges should be a last resort, after talking to them, explaining why doing things when they need to be done and the consequences of inaction.
How can you prepare your kid to do the tasks at work that they dislike but will inevitably need to do, if you allow them to just say “No, don’t like it. Don’t feel like it.”?
My son will be getting his first job, which will be paying pretty good, considering he is being compensated to learn a trade. We talked about looking at and following a budget, as well as him covering the bills for a couple things we both use (phone and internet). He’s going to have to get used to paying all of his own bills when he eventually leaves the nest, therefore he needs experience with it at home in an safe space. We’re going to work together on these things. Not doing so is doing him a disservice. My parents let me move out as soon as I graduated high school, and I wish they would have made me stay home for at least a little longer. I had zero knowledge when it came to finances and credit.
Responsibilities inside a safe space are absolutely necessary. Letting one’s children just do whatever they want without consequence is terrible parenting.
When they proclaim that they turned out just fine, I think about shit like this
