a drawing of a person wearing a balaclava and holding a gun with the text “all my homies hate tankies” :3
Anyone who thinks Tankies and anarchists can get along should look up the CNT-FAI, the Ukrainoan Black Army, the Kronstadt Rebellion, and the Korean People’s Association in Manchuria and see what happened when they all worked with tankies. And if anyone wants to see how tankies compare today heres some fucked up shit about the largest ML party in the US.
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/14wF1Ti5GT2w5GZmwqvhvk6uH4zUss_a-B2GZ9NZEx74/mobilebasic
https://fashbusters.wordpress.com/2020/12/30/psl-stalked-doxxed-harassed-steven-powers-accuser/
Ugh this type of bullshit infighting within leftist spaces is about as serious as debating your tabletop RPG actions, and sends regular people packing. None of this shit matters. Real people don’t care about it and they have no idea what a tankie is. Feds love this bullshit. We’re losing, we lost, the world is becoming a fascist hellscape but apparently somebody has time to make memes about fighting each other. It’s amazing how that always seems to happen, especially now when you’d think most people could feel unified?
yknow what feds love? hierarchical organisations, where they just gotta assassinate or compromise the leader to make it fall appart or coopt the entire organisation.
but real talk discussions like this are valuable for voicing real criticism against harmful “leftist” ideologies and through that developing our own views more wholistically. and this is important. you cant only criticise fascists, neo-liberals, and fudalists, or you might miss out on the underlying criticisms and will reproduce their flaws because of that. and while tankies might be able to do similar work as anarchists in the here and now, they are still flawed and this will only get worse, the more power they get. this discussion is important to any real person, who because of it wont fall for the lie of authoritarianism or might even escape it.
and this world is turning fascist but tankies are cheering on half of them. you know what sends regular people packing? support for china, the soviet union, and north korea. authoritarianism takes the credibility away from libratory struggles.
also its just good to vent frustrations sonetimes…
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there are basic strategies to prevent conversations from being derailed. not hard and already being done.
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🤡
disagree i think it’s
a) fun
b) helpful to be aware of the stakes at play. authoritarianism has hurt many people and it does no justice to be quiet about that.
c) something that doesn’t even happen that often anyway so like idc
apparently somebody has time to make memes
A) to be fair, memes are the principal monetization strategy of the internet
B) there is a factory somewhere that is mass producing injection-molded fake dog shit out of plastic and this post is the thing that gets your hackles up about an ineffectual expenditure of time, thought and human capital?
Thanks a lot, now I’m just thinking about the fake dog shit factory.
Calling tankies leftist is a stretch
Calling them something else is a stretch, all but their geopolitical beliefs are leftist
To fix everything people gotta stop being tribalist idiots. Lol!! Maybe try to get murdoch and Koch the memo
I love my anarchist comrades and I love my communist comrades. I hate seeing memes like this. May we all be lucky enough to argue in the midst of a real revolution. Until then, focus on the fucking fascists.
Unity above all else. Absolutely. However Tankie rhetoric in good faith or from an agent provocateur is something that needs to be addressed directly. Any power structure without egalitarian praxis is antithetical to the movement. Communism and Anarchism are very similar to the point where there are anarcho communists.
I want to make sure that there is space for us to figure out self governance immediately after the revolution. I don’t want to rely on a nascent “interim” government to hand it down to me.
Anarcho communism just makes sense. If communism is a moneyless, classless, stateless society, is it not by default anarchist as well?
And I’m not referring to any of the so called “communist” countries because they’re all variations of socialist and not communist. They all have a state.
I’m someone with a leg in both tendencies, as it were. I purposely avoid getting too into the theory weeds, in favor of interacting with actual people. I see the word “tankie” used veeerrryyy liberally lately, and it feels like it doesn’t signify very much. Respectfully, thinking about “immediately after the revolution” is getting way ahead of yourself, at least in relation to who you work with today.
we dont need power to the people after some magical revolution somewhere in the future. we need to prefigure non-hierarchical structures in the here and now, and while even building the capacity for violent insurrection.
i dont trust a revolutionairy army, that is build on authoritairian principles, to give power away to a newly forming anarchist society, once in power. if all that people know is hierarchy, thats the structures they will tend to recreate.
looking at real revolutionairy movements, it appears to me that they either turn anarchist during the prolonged struggle or forever stay authoritairian despite their best efforts.
Hear you on this. Most people just want to be on the top of the hierarchy which is at least partly why none of the so called “communist” countries ever actually achieved it.
Most people can’t fathom a lack of hierarchy. Even in interpersonal relationships.
The parent above the child. The boss above the worker. The principal above the teacher. The husband above the wife. Etc etc. that’s why queer people are so attacked, besides the “we’re not normal” part, we upend hierarchical beliefs. I’m a lesbian, and when I’m dating someone, there’s always a hetero (who is queer friendly, just stupid!) asking who’s the “man” in the relationship. None! That’s the point!
We have to get over a lifetime of conditioning. I’ve always been anarchist since I was young - when I was 4, I became vegetarian. My reasoning, at four: why is a dog more valuable than a cow? If I wouldn’t eat my dog why would I eat a cow? And you know what, 32 years later I still abide by that logic.
The thing is historically leftists ally with anarchists until they get power and then they execute the anarchists. They want unity as long as it’s convenient for their agenda, but that’s true of any philosophy that encourages power structures of any kind.
Historically yes. Any transition of power is a dangerous time. There’s a history of communists factions and bad faith actors working with fascists in Italy to murder anarchists who were planning to kill Mussolini. However that’s not a conversation that’s necessary this very second. Stratification of power and the way in which it’s weilded is not lost on me. The problem with people that make bombs is sometimes the only cause they have is the one that necessitates bombings.
“However that’s not a conversation that’s necessary this very second”
“Trust me bro we won’t kill you immediately afterwards, just do what helps us and you’ll be fine, trust me bro”
Kinda feels like what the DNC told Bernie supporters the past 10 years.
This.
Also, tankies are that not because they’re communists (they’re not, no matter how hard they insist) but because they support an oppressor on the same scale as the one they demand we unite with them to oppose, simply because said oppressor calls themselves communist (again, they’re not), seemingly without understanding how that might make those of us opposed to all oppression mistrust them, and be unwilling to simply overlook their values and actions.
On the other hand, I always see people who use the term tankies calling everyone who the US propaganda says is an oppressor an oppressor. It’s so weird how that works out that way, that the colonized countries trying to get self-determination are the oppressors, and the western colonial and imperialist countries are the only ones with “freedom”. They eat the propaganda right up.
I think you mean liberals.
I’m an anarchist.
Fuck tankies (E: who do exactly what you’re accusing others of doing to them - licking Chinese boot instead of American doesn’t make one any better than the other)
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Authoritarians of all kinds fuck off!
Most communists/socialists arent tankies (even if .ml tries really hard to convince everyone otherwise) but identify with hammer and sickle too :(
But fk tankies, I’m with you on that
i agree. i hope anti-authoritarians dont feel targeted. i personally would not call myself a communist or use hammer and sickle, because they are too charged but they can definitely represent things i can stand behind.
Just tag anyone getting upset in the comments. I’ve already seen 2 people I’ve previously tagged as tankies.
also please report them if u think u should, we dont allow tankies here :3
I kinda do, that’s why I wrote, but no hard feelings :)
Yep just keep punching left 😮💨
"First they came for the **socialists**, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me." —Martin NiemöllerTankies. Not leftists. Tankies specifically.
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Isn’t tankie just a pejorative for socialist?
No, tankie means specifically authoritarian socialist.
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Yes, that’s exactly what I said. Good job. I’m fucking choking on the words you’re putting in my mouth.
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Just look at your comment. Authoritarian means authoritarian, not leftist. If you can’t imagine leftism without oppression, then that’s a you problem. Also, that’s ms. sarcasm to you.
Tankie is a pejorative for anyone to the left of Netanyahu.
Amazing how it keeps moving further and further right!
🤡
isn’t it ironic how the quote you cited is exactly what happens every single time MLs take power? you’re only antifascists until it’s time to criticize red fascism
Should I work with Marxist-Leninists?
If you’re organising at work or around housing issues, the people you work with are not going to all have the same politics at you, and your opinions on the July 1918 uprising of Left Socialist Revolutionaries after their expulsion from the Bolshevik government are not relevant to that situation. Yes, really, no-one gives a shit. You’re relating to each other as workers in that situation, not as representatives of a political niche, at least we hope not.
[…]
If there are real political and organisational disagreements, it’s better to be open about them than gloss over them, and retain some independence.
tankie colloquially refers to communists who deluded themselves into thinking authoritarianism can breed anything other than opression and that to give power to the people, you first got to take it away from the people.
its not impossible to work with tankies on low stake joined causes but with their usually hierarchical and authoritarian organising structures (that they even try to spread) they still make for shitty partners.
their idelology is misguided and harmful. i hope they all eventually learn and become anarchists. power to the people
tankie colloquially refers to communists who deluded themselves into thinking authoritarianism can breed anything other than opression and that to give power to the people, you first got to take it away from the people.
That is probably the most on point description.
A former roommate of mine had a hysterical emotional breakdown, and spent the following 2 months convincing everyone we both knew that I was mentally unstable to the point of needing to be institutionalized…
… because I laughed in his face when he described Hu Jintao being very publically arrested at a mass televised CCP conference… as ‘being put into witness protection due to a threat on his life’.
…
You see, the problem with Tankies is that they’re astoundingly insecure, extremely manipulative, and fully believe in any means justifying their ends.
Tankie roommates: Not even once.
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While I do genuinely feel sorry that this roommate of yours behaved in such awful and shitty way, my point was about the larger communities as a whole. Especially now that there are openly fascist people in power in the US and in a lot of other countries, I believe it’s even more important to be united. Or at least, as I quoted before, know where the differences lie.
That doesn’t mean being supportive of wrong behaviors and/or people of course. Being critical of wrongdoing is an essential skill. But in my opinion one can’t be as critical when generalizing about such large groups
I’ll continue to trust Tankies as much as the historical record indicates Anarchists should.
Which is 0, less than 0, some negative amount.
If you know of any historical revolutionary movements involving a distinct and significant amount of Anarchists that did not include Tankies betraying and/or murdering all their Anarchist ‘allies’, please let me know.
EDIT: Here, I can ‘read more theory, noob’ too
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ziq-tankies-and-the-left-unity-scam
I may not be an Anarchist, but i’m sure saving that link. Thanks.
Tankies are fascists. You can argue all you want for pro-lgbt and anti-racist action. Community actions. This is individuals.
What rises through the ranks is fascists. And they want those fascists. Because fascists promise an utopia at the end.
And this is who fascists elect.
Digging the anti-corporate vibes of a Games Workshop Chaos Star.
The chaos star comes from before Warhammer. It comes from the Elric of Malniboné books by Michael Moorcock (unfortunate last name lol). The symbol has been adopted by anarcho-nihilists, which is the context for this usage
His star is actually different.
The Moorcock star is 8 outwards arrows with radial symmetry (not very chaotic to have symmetry but we’ll get to that)
Games Workshop (whose early writers were largely anarchist and heavily inspired by Moorcock) added a circle to the symbol, with the arrows escaping the bounds (like in the anarchy A). They’re also often, but not always, asymmetrical. Also, sometimes it’s not! Sometimes it’s just Moorcock’s! Chaos, bitch! There’s specific meaning behind a lot of the differences but it’s not relevant.
That’s the Games Workshop Chaos Star. Period. It even has similar arrowhead design to the arrow heads used directly on the figures.
For reference, this is a particularly complicated Warhammer Chaos Star:
Note in particular the lines on the outside of the circle, in between the main 8 arrows.
Anarchists aren’t the only ones that use the star btw:
Which is why I downvoted this shit, as it happens. Real anarchists aren’t ripping off corporate symbols to beef with Marxists in 2025.
Not the smart ones, anyways. There’s plenty of black fascists running around, red fascists are going to have to take a number.
That all said, I haven’t read a lot of Moorcock, compared to way too much Warhammer. If you’re saying they got their variations from Moorcock too I’ll believe you.
Anarcho-nihilists and insurrectionary anarchists are the ones typically using the symbol, and they don’t usually care if its the Moorcock one or the Games Workshop one. Won’t deny, yeah this one’s the Games Workshop version. But I also think its basically arguing semantics whether they’re using the Moorcock one, an anarcho-nihilist one, or a GW one. Whether its the GW one or not is sorta irrelevant (I was just trying to provide some history and context, won’t deny I missed the circle which does make it the GW version), as its clearly being used in an anarchist context. All I was saying was Moorcock is credited with the original, and Games Workshop were directly inspired by Moorcock and also used it. However I do not feel its fair to equate op or anyone that uses the symbol to fascists. Yes some use the chaos star but it is a very specific and niche version of it.
I also don’t think its a good idea to just give up the symbol because a couple irrelevant basement dwelling fascists try to use a niche version of the chaos star. I’m tired of leftists just letting fascists take symbols away without a fight. I don’t see Marxists dropping the hammer and sickle cause NazBols use it.
Lastly, anarchists are certainly beefing with tankies. And they are going to use their symbols to do it. Chaos star included because it is an anarchist symbol whether you agree with its use or not. I have it on my punk jacket, I am a very clear anarchist, and I very much have beef with tankies because I see them as fascists with a red coat of paint.
The meme is well designed, love the chaos star especially and love to see more balaclava girlies. And I can sympathize as I’ve certainly encountered very bizarre takes by terminally online internet leftists in favor of weird shit like being in favor of the Ukraine invasion or thinking the DPRK is some secret paradise.
However, by and large I’ve gotten to the point where anytime I hear the term ‘tankie’ thrown around it feels thought terminating. I’ve been called a tankie for being opposed to the US invading North Korea, or for supporting indigenous land return. But here’s a bigger problem I’ve encountered: I volunteer every week at a local free store run by anarchists and I also have done organizing work with local ML parties. Anytime the local MLs want to get involved in the free store, or collaborating on any mutual aid projects the Anarchists have going on its cold shoulders all around “Oh no, those people are Tankies. We can’t trust them.” It’s gotten to the point where everything is separate and there’s no talking to each other. One time a Communist party member mentioned they knew someone who could do free glasses repair and thought it would be good for them to come to the free store, and when I brought it up folks just didn’t wanna hear it or criticized “the company I keep” as if that would taint them. It’s just disheartening because all these MLs locally are almost all LGBTQ, poor/working class, disabled, etc. Just like the Anarchists and want a lot of the same things. I really think anti-communist propaganda has created such an unnecessary divide in our organizing. I’m not asking folks to all just get along and agree, I want different orgs to have their autonomy and own ways of thought. I would just want people to focus their ire on people who ACTUALLY make life shit for us, especially here in the west, which is our own capitalist state and the capitalist class.
Thank you for indulging me by reading my long silly comment.
if they’ll help hold a barricade idgaf
And how did that turn out in Spain?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Days
But I agree to an extent, tankies are not our biggest problem rn. Utilitarian alliances are fine. But never forget that they are not fighting for freedom
ive been in action with tankies and they were a pain in the butt, making decisions that affect all of us hierarchically and not sharing info, just expecting us to do whatevever their leaders decide
better than nothing maybe but i wish they were cooler
I’m tired of this red scare bs. It belongs in history books, not on the internet.
this has nothing to do with red scare. tankies suck and its not because capitalist states say so
Can you define what a “tankie” is? It absolutely is red scare bs. No one calls themselves that.
People who cheered the tanks rolling into the Czech Republic and Hungary…they’re the same ones hoping Russia would roll over Ukraine to spite the liberal world order. Tankies are alive and well.
Tankies consider both to be awful (my experience), they want a weakened order for communism to restart international revolutions (what I read)
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Fortunately for tankie wannabes everywhere, Russia did the thing again
Have you been to hexbear? They call themselves that.
Also, tankies simply aren’t communists.
Liberals not being able to tell the difference (E: or tankies in denial) doesn’t make this anti communist.
i deffo hate some tankies, in the same way that i deffo hate some vegetarian/vegans when they actively chase people away for seemingly no reason. sometimes though i do feel like i see more blind hate for entire communities than actual worthwhile discussion.
i guess the problem could really just come down to your definition of “tankie”. to some folks it’s a very specific kind of obvious troll, and to others it’s just anyone on an .ml instance.
and not to turn it into a “lesser evil” discussion, but between .world and .ml, i definitely know which which meme community i’m hanging out in. i’ve yet to have a single bad interaction with anyone in .ml communities, but i also don’t talk politics in fucken marxist/leninist spaces either. YMMV hahahah
Not all ml-ers are tankies, but most of them are, and all it takes is most of them.
fair! but i do worry the term is at risk of being overused to the point of no longer having a cohesive meaning.
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Shocking.
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The label was applied months ago. The only people getting upset in the comments are tankies.
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it IS applies in bad faith, but yeah
They called themself a tankie 5 days ago. What do you want from me.
Just checked, they really are a tankie lol
Ah yes, because there is no way someone can be against capitalism while not supporting dictators.
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I remember a time when tankies were just the militant leftists that would literally and physically punch nazis. That was pretty much the only qualification required, anarchist or communist: if you were willing to do violence on a nazi you were the tankie and it didn’t require some stance on NATO geopolitics.
ig the word changed meaning then :3
Absolutely co-opted, yeah.
It never meant this. It was a slur against authoritarian “socialists” to start with
I just remember that’s what we called the de-facto bouncers at the bar I used to frequent. Whom I witnessed remove a few nazis. (The bar was not too far from the greyhound station that supplied a frequent supply of tan jumpsuits.) But this was right after Occupy Wall Street, so ancient history.
Perhaps. You can read about the word here
this is interesting. so sometime between the Communist Party of Great Britain and 2017 the word devolved to mean “nazi puncher”, then returned to its roots as describing authoritarian communists? am i getting that right?/gen
i have never seen firsthand that nazi punching usage. i have only know it to describe authoritarian communists
I think maybe you replied to the wrong person? In either case, I have never heard the nazi puncher definition either
ah i think i misunderstood your “perhaps”. thx for sharing! :3
…I am well aware of wikipedia.
And besides: even that link attributes modern internet usage as emerging in 2017, whereas I am referencing anecdotal usage from 2011. Are you under the impression the story I was telling meant I was not familiar with the word and how its use has changed?
It talks about the origin of the word as meaning something different from what you are talking about, so an earlier usage than yours again. I provided the link in case you were unaware, it was not meant to imply anything about you.
All my homies agree, I really look good in black, fool.
