I mean, they must know how much the public mocks them, right? What are the odds they’re actively trying to make everything worse as a Jokerfied “I’m taking the whole world out with me.” kind of thing?

Just a random tin foil hat thought, don’t take this too seriously

  • UmbraVivi [he/him, she/her]@hexbear.net
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    13 days ago

    Matt Christmann once talked about (broadly paraphrasing) how at this point of capitalist hegemony, nobody is really in control anymore, including the capitalists.

    Capitalism turns everything into a race to the bottom. Whoever can squeeze as much profit as possible out of something right now will get investor funding and hype, long-term thinking is not viable. Even if anyone in a position of power had a change of heart and wanted to make the world a better place, they’d be ousted by the other capitalists who are demanding their short-term returns.

    Although people like Musk and Bezos are doubtlessly spiteful pieces of shit, I don’t think they actively want to make everything worse. The system demands they do it and they don’t mind being complicit.

    • miz [any, any]@hexbear.net
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      13 days ago

      On my view, the core Marxist insight is the following: Feudal lords were the masters of Feudalism. Capitalists, however, aren’t the masters of capitalism. They are merely the high priests of capitalism. The master of capitalism is Capital itself.

      excerpt of Why Marxism? by Roderic Day

      Fierce denunciations of Marx are not uncommon, but the more popular tactic is to vaguely pay respects while completely underappreciating his work. The resulting middle-of-the-road position concedes that the history of all hitherto existing society entails some form of proto-capitalism, or “propertarian” forms of social relations. However, it does not appreciate the significance of the transition from feudalism to capitalism, the discontinuity between capitalism and previous modes of production, or identify as properly revolutionary the process whereby the seat of power was transferred from feudal lords to business owners (the bourgeoisie). Thus, it does not understand the true nature of capitalism, or how to organize to defeat it.

      Capitalism brought with it an unprecedented expansion in social mobility, both upward and downward. The waning of aristocratic mores led to celebration, but it was short-lived. It soon became clear that these new capitalists were something akin to kings, even those of humble origins. And despite a lot of rhetoric about the freedom and equality of the laborer, capitalists routinely used force to discipline the working poor. Thus philosophers and clergymen of the time began to formulate criticisms of capitalism: it’s heartless, it’s exploitative, it tends towards monopoly, it rewards greed, and so forth.

      Marx stood out from other anti-capitalist thinkers of his era precisely because while most focused on the many similarities between kings and capitalists, Marx focused on the differences. Even those who claimed the mantle of science, such as Proudhon, focused on how capitalists exploit the people: “the barons of the middle ages plundered the traveller on the highway, and then offered him hospitality in their castles; mercantile feudality, less brutal, exploits the proletaire and builds hospitals for him.” [4] Studying the threat of poverty and the batons of the police force, he emphasized the continuity with old forms inherited from feudalism, and pleaded for an enlightened future where we reject and transcend them. Marx was more concerned with the why. He wanted to understand what made capitalism unique. What exactly is exploitation? How do we measure it? How is this different in feudalism than in capitalism?

      Marx’s impressive predictions are a direct result of this analysis. Weber paraphrases Marx as appreciating that “the limits to the exploitation of the feudal serf were determined by the walls of the stomach of the feudal lord.” [5][6] Under capitalism, on the other hand, we have profit-oriented commodity production. This means that neither “stomach walls” nor any other kind of natural limit impose themselves: accumulation can be infinite, and since everything is tradeable with everything else, the capitalist not only can but must (in order to compete) accumulate without limit. Growth for the sake of growth, a growth that is indifferent to what kind of work anybody actually does.

      Rather than deny the virtues of capitalist competition, as many socialists still do, Marx actually conceded that capitalism had unleashed production and stitched together supply chains in a prodigious way: “what earlier century had even a presentiment that such productive forces slumbered in the lap of social labour?” [7] However, he went on to explain that this virtue would be its core vice, and lead to its downfall. A contradiction.

      Adam Smith writes about how competition would help drive prices to their proper value vis-a-vis market needs, about how capitalists are “led by an invisible hand to make nearly the same distribution of the necessaries of life, which would have been made, had the earth been divided into equal portions among all its inhabitants, and thus without intending it, without knowing it, advance the interest of the society, and afford means to the multiplication of the species.” [8] Marx did not outright reject this mechanism, but he challenged the value-judgment. He predicted that even in the hypothetical case that a benevolent capitalist did not personally wish to exploit, they would have to do so anyway, or else they would be replaced by another willing exploiter.

      To paraphrase William C. Roberts, capitalists are simply at the top of the pyramid of market-dominated producers. [9] What if humans, capable of rational deliberation, want to make healthcare free? What if they want to assert that the environment is valuable in itself? The invisible hand imposes itself decisively: “No.”

      Marx described the phenomenon of “commodity fetishism”: through many small separate acts of exchange, we command each other to behave in very specific ways, while disclaiming this same power and attributing its commands to blind necessity. Commodities are inert objects, and humans are rational beings, but society operates as if humans were helpless against the pressures exerted by the market. Market domination even finds lucid expression in natural-sounding phrases like “if I don’t sell out to Facebook, they’ll just copy my features, so may as well do it myself” and “if I paid you more, I’d have to pay everyone more, and then we’d lose to the competition and all be out of a job.”

      There is nothing wrong with denouncing American plutocrats like Bezos and Gates for greed, but we cannot stop there: we must understand that the system of exploitation is not held together by any individual’s vices. As Lenin put it, “The capitalists divide the world, not out of any particular malice, but because the degree of concentration which has been reached forces them to adopt this method in order to obtain profits.” [10] If one of them had a major change of heart and stopped pursuing ruthless accumulation, they would quickly be ousted by stockholders for endangering their investment. In the unlikely event that their stockholders were cooperative, a competitor would swoop in and relieve them of their commanding market share. This is not apologia for Bezos, but we need to understand that there is a talent to being a capitalist exploiter, or else we will underestimate our enemy. The market selects for profitability, and it selects well — it just doesn’t select for environmental responsibility or decency or who can bring the most benefits to the greatest number. From Marx, to Lenin, to Deng, we can observe a baseline level of respect for the enemy: “Management is also a technique.” [11]

      On my view, the core Marxist insight is the following: Feudal lords were the masters of Feudalism. Capitalists, however, aren’t the masters of capitalism. They are merely the high priests of capitalism. The master of capitalism is Capital itself.


      from https://redsails.org/why-marxism/

    • Cimbazarov [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      13 days ago

      Yea, and I think that is precisely why a materialism is the best framework for understanding the world (at least as far back as recorded history goes). Despite what people’s ideas are or psychological motivations, the materialist forces, beyond their control, are what drive them to do what they do

  • Wmill [they/them, fae/faer]@hexbear.net
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    13 days ago

    They hate the masses and want to save humanity but in their image with them at the levers of power, they’re trying to at the same time out run all the destruction their wealth brought on as they continue to wreak shit. Def they know how bad shit is but they can’t and won’t stop until capitalism destroys itself

  • D61 [any]@hexbear.net
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    13 days ago

    I prefer to credit their ineptitude more than their malice.

    Sure, they will be petty tyrants and try to hurt those who have slighted them or aren’t “respecting” them but the level of global destruction they are responsible for is just as likely a function of ineptitude and inertia.

  • nasezero [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    To “truly hate” something, I think you need to understand it first, and these billionaires absolutely do not understand what humanity is. I think their “hate” is on the same emotional level as a toddler being denied a toy, except unlike a toddler, they have vast resources to overcome any sort of obstacles in the way of them getting what they want (e.g. environmental regulations, people living on land they want, etc).

    • adultswim_antifa [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      13 days ago

      Yes, they are like aliens. They have no frame of reference to understand how a normal proletarian lives and they don’t need to. Yet for a proletarian, understanding how these aliens think helps explain much of our own lives.

  • ZWQbpkzl [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    13 days ago

    Depends on the person, but in general they want to rule the world not destroy it. Its just that them holding onto power indirectly leads to destorying the world.

  • BodyBySisyphus [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    There was that article written by that escort who went to Davos and found that everyone was treating it like a Masque of the Red Death. There’s a lethal combination of an absence of imagination (Bezos doesn’t understand music), which is a fundamental requirement for optimism, diffusion of responsibility (even the CEOs are beholden to The Market), and (probably) the nihilism that sprouted from the Cold War era’s ever-present threat of nuclear annihilation that’s resulting in avoidance of easy actions that could forestall the impending catastrophe. But today’s capitalists (with the possible exception of Bill Gates) don’t even have the urge of yesteryear’s robber barons to at least try to win the public’s respect. Is it because they’re misanthropes? Maybe, what passes for intellectualizing the problem among the bourg typically lands on overpopulation, even though millionaires and billionaires produce over half of global emissions, and Gates’s solutions to poverty don’t involve the wealthy having to make sacrifices (he totally offsets his emissions with legit carbon credits, stop complaining about his yacht!). They probably resent the fact that their lifestyles aren’t as worry-free as they think they should be and that manifests in antipathy toward the lower class, but I think they ultimately view themselves as victims of circumstance.

    • miz [any, any]@hexbear.net
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      13 days ago

      remembering the guy at the bar doing a shot every time he yells “TAX THE RICH” and then he laughs uproariously

      https://archive.ph/LRb2e

      ‘Tax the Rich etc. is a joke behind closed doors […] There’s a guy at the bar who shouts “Tax the Rich” with every new shot. They feel untouchable.’

      • BodyBySisyphus [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        It’s really funny seeing that juxtaposed against what is essentially marketing copy explaining how the courtesans are expected to be well-educated and are valued for their intelligence. What the hell does intelligence even mean in this context? Being able to quote Proust while doing an elaborate BDSM bit with a stuffed shirt who gets drunk laughing about the grossly inequitable global wealth distribution?

  • Evilphd666 [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    13 days ago

    To them, empathy is the profit killer. Think like that and you will understand how these freaks think. It is always worse than you can imagine. They live a life and in circles where caring about anything is seen as weakness and a risk to short term profits.

    Because they, their creditors, and major shareholders own the government, they can get away with murder and worse in persuit of profits.

    Any bit of heathcare, time off, berevement, decent pay, building more to protect the environment, ect is a penny they don’t keep. They are reinforced to think this way by their creditors and major shareholders. They allow them to become the richest fucks in the world running empires of bankruptcy and at a loss zero profit schemes that break the market and competition.

  • towhee [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    I have had the misfortune of knowing very severe narcissists in this life, one of whom in a relationship afflicted me with a similar mindset. The basic mindset is this: when things go your way, it is because you are brilliant and chosen and an example to those around you. When things don’t go your way, it is because people have let you down by failing to recognize your inherent superiority; thus they must be punished, and you will use your talents to become a plague upon the world.

  • Euergetes [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    13 days ago

    they want to dominate and be revered as gods, they hate the people who mock and them, but greatly covet fawning praise from sychophants. killing/censoring/coercing everyone into voices that stroke their ego is the idea

  • laziestflagellant [they/them]@hexbear.net
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    I think they justify themselves with the trappings of meritocracy (read: social darwinism)

    They’re aware that the world is getting worse from increased automation and climate change, but its fine because the cream (very smart boys and girls of good breeding ;) ) will rise to the top and the unnecessary will be discarded and eventually they’ll come out the other side (with their help and leadership!) as a better, much smaller, humanity

    • Xavienth@lemmygrad.ml
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      13 days ago

      Genuinely. They believe themselves above everyone in terms of intelligence, cunning, deception, strength, what have you. They literally believe they’re in the position they are because everyone else is just a mindless NPC