I was the last one to incite a debate about Hasan on this site, and this was the comment that reframed my thinking positively.
Hasan saved me from being a life long lib and convinced me to vote for Platner- I’m actually planning on getting a similar tattoo in solidarity.
don’t forget to get a job at blackwater!
Hey that’s me, mooooom get the camera
not now ma i’m postin’
To add to what you’ve originally said, pipelines only work if average people can’t connect the two ends of the pipeline. There’s a reason why the opening end of the fascist pipeline is Andrew Tate and Nick Fuentes instead of some blue eyes blonde hair Odin-worshipping freak named Olaf Henriksen. Tate being a brown Muslim and Fuentes being a (gay?) Latino is why they’re at one end of the pipeline while the Olaf Henriksens are at the other end. The Olaf Henriksens shitting on Tate and Fuentes for being [racial slurs] who are ruining white nationalism because they’re [racial slurs] play their part since normal people are going to be more easily fooled by the Tates and Fuentes going, “If you think I’m a white supremacist, you should read what actual white nationalists like Olaf Henriksen say about me. I’m just a normal guy like you who can’t stand the wokes and the [trans slur] and I wanna do something about it. Will you join me?”
I think what a lot of people miss about Hasan is that he is acutely aware that that is his role to play. He talked about it a little bit when he was on the Deprogram.
A lot of people miss it because they don’t watch him (which is extremely OK, and maybe even good). Many also seem to ignore people who explain this in every thread, so we are always at the same starring point instead of developing better criticisms and viewpoints.
i get the sense that a lot of people here have been burned by people like contrapoints and are suspicious of The Pipeline because of it
True, as people should be, Contra is one of the tumours that prevents people from going further left
Its great to be suspicious and critical! The starting point of that conversation must be grounded in fact!
Nobody even has to like the guy at all, but the question needs to be “how do we use him/his community?”
“He is a lib and gave Bernie a pass” is almost there, but even then I often see it posted to dismiss any further conversation.
i’m in a bubble i’m sure but people that liked her old decent for the moment stuff dropped her over NBphobia and/or associating with Clinton.
Exactly. People expect perfectly Marxist Leninist takes from someone whose explicit purpose is to shove berniebros into the pipeline to socialism. Not only is he an individual and therefore flawed, but also he purposefully engages within the overton window to an extent
Whenever the arguments start about him, I always have to remind myself that he started his media/talking head career as the TYT nepo nephew. He has amazing politics when you compare him to Cenk and Ana (and their trajectories they took).
Wow had no idea Cenk is his uncle
Cenk fired him because he said “America deserved 9/11” iirc lmao
I genuinely don’t understand why anytime Hexbear has something to talk about we’re not allowed to talk about it. I say that as a mod too. It’s kind of maddening. Let the people fight and learn and grow and ban the ones who can’t do it respectfully it is that easy
The creator of the last thread deleted it, I guess they didn’t like us talking about it.
I don’t really respect the move, but it worked out since this thread provokes a better discussion about Hasan’s substance rather than starting from “I’m annoyed about something that hasn’t happened yet”.
They were from .ml, I guess they can’t take all the heat in the bear cave.
They’re a regular Hexbear user, especially the news mega.
You shouldn’t be allowed to delete your post if people have already commented on it
Ah, the way of the warrior
a true poster I see.It caps or destroys the productive value of other posters’ labor.
It violates the NAP.
The subject of how important media is to the cause, if media consumption is politically transformative, where media careerism fits into practical strategy, etc are all good questions worth exploring as a community. Media consumption is one of the biggest issues for leftists online (or online leftists?) and we never talk about from the outside. It’s always something boiling under the surface of these spontaneous slap-fights. We should start having structured discussions on issues that so many seem to care about.
Since we live in a world where people can make a career out of presenting socialist ideas to the world, we should probably address how that fits into a socialist movement. I can understand the USSR not getting too in-depth about radio as mass media. They didn’t conceptualize it that way because it hadn’t turned into this reality-defining commodity that has been for the past few generations. Anyone trying to do movement building in 2026 needs to address it in a formal, rigorous way.
Reposting from another thread: Hasan has a place in the pipeline for the growing disenchantment liberals are feeling.
I appreciate his work but he really is custom made for clueless soon-to-be baby leftist Americans.
Bingo! Hasan knows his audience, and he is the biggest funnel for a Left pipeline. If he became more dogmatic the funnel would narrow. Leftism is like vegetables for somebody that only ever ate corporate junk food. All the arguments about health or being natural do not work with picky eaters. Forcing them to eat their vegetables is a straight road to failure. Sometimes you need to cover their veggies up with cheese mornay or salad dressing to make it more palatable.
I literally have to embody this meme to get any traction.
In my experience you need to babywalk liberals into Leftist positions, inch by painful inch, and let me tell you it takes a while for things to sink in. If they feel you are being dogmatic they stop listening :wall-talk: It happened to me during the George Floyd protests where I was too hot too quickly about the police and it turned off the people I was reaching out to. I have since softened up my delivery so when the :amerikkka: state goons executed Good and Pretti those ideas landed far better.
Hasan is the softball leftist that baby liberals can swallow without immediately throwing up, and from that crack I can trojan even more leftist theory. I do the same thing with Trump using the liberal anger at him and Democracts as a breach in the defenses for more radical ideas. I am using war against Iran right now as a vehicle for introducing historical US foreign policy. I do it with people like John Oliver or Jon Stewart, despite both being absolute libs, because they are just palatable enough to form a crack that I can use, especially against the police. Same with NPR or PBS despite being literally funded by the State.
I am not arguing for anybody to abandon their position. Let that be your anchor as you are slowly guide others towards your position. Drip feed some counter-arguments as they come up.
Maybe he is, like me, a sophist, who doesn’t let beliefs get in the way of getting the job done. He’s many times noted how with some hogs, certain arguments that might not be the best (e.g. we shouldn’t bomb Iran because it is in the service of Israel might be more effective than we shouldn’t be doing imperialism full stop). That ability to shapeshift is valuable as long as it’s broadly done in the service of left principles without compromising on things like genocide.
The most policing he does is on leftists who are so detached they’ve lost the ability to communicate/pipeline liberals. Which, in a space like his, is acceptable. Once you’re on hexbear, go fucking ham with the esoteric left critiques and struggle sessions, but when trying to pipeline liberals in your org a softer and more contingent touch is required.
He literally lies about Lenin to convince people to vote for democrats. That is not a pipeline to the left. That is diverting people who were heading left towards his friends in the democratic party. The fact he screams at anyone who tries to point out that he is misrepresenting Lenin makes it clear this is a deliberate strategy, I imagine this is because if he wasn’t serving the democrats he would lose access to them.
He is an active, deliberate impediment to the left.
If that’s all they will do (vote democrat), it’s still better than them being chuds. If they, however, use the fact that he namedrops Lenin to go further, that’s also a good thing. Also, I don’t think his readings are “lies” they’re just readings! It’s like saying you are Martin Luther and have the correct interpretation of scripture. Lenin’s works are a text, and while there’s doctrinaire readings, perhaps he’s flexing the truth to get people to approach the works.
I don’t buy that they were “heading left” necessarily either - what’s that even mean? Is it abstaining because accelerationism is the best principle? Unless “heading left” is joining a union, building the organization, and creating strike power, I literally don’t know what you’re talking about here (and that’s not mutually exclusive with voting for democrats).
is obviously a very minor thing, and he’s doing work to platform progressive candidates, but if “heading left” is just voting for the most communist candidate - most people who he gets in would have never done that anyway! Meanwhile, when he emphasizes unions, organizing, and building actual power, he’s actually moving people left.Also, I don’t think his readings are “lies” they’re just readings!
If you read Lenin telling people it can be productive to vote for a proletarian political party even in a bourgeois system and use that to tell people they should vote for the democrats then you are a fucking liar, full stop. That is explicitly the opposite of what the passage says. This is what makes it clear that while he could fill the role you’re talking about, he is choosing not to. He is funneling people into being democrat voters and explicitly directing them away from the left. Like, he literally shouts down anyone who tries to suggest actual left wing ideas on favour of, once again, misrepresenting Lenin in order to convince people to vote democrat. That is not useful or productive unless the end goal you want is barbarism. Personally I am hoping for socialism.
Has Hasan ever supported “vote blue no matter who”? Generally he has supported DSA-aligned candidates like Zohran who in some capacity are trying to push democrats towards a proletarian party. It’s also about pushing the entire left in America so the bare minimum is no genocide, anti-war, pro M4A. And he’s uncompromising on these things! It’s not like he’s supporting freaks who support “medicare for all who want it.”
I’m listening to him now, and he’s literally arguing “more than half of the Democrats in the caucus are also on board with this initiative [to attack Iran]”. How is this supporting “Democrats” in the abstract? Specific candidates with left policies within the party are worth supporting, but that’s the extent of his support! He didn’t even support Kamala as some sort of squishy harm reduction shit because he’s uncompromising on the things that matter!
Generally he has supported DSA-aligned candidates like Zohran
Supporting Zohran “homeless sweeps and bending the knee to Israel are good” Mamdani is effectively what I am talking about.
who in some capacity are trying to push democrats towards a proletarian party.
I hope you mean democratic voters because entryism is a dead end.
I didn’t say he was blue no matter who, but pushing people to vote for “some democrats” is still channeling people away from the left. The other half of democrats who didn’t “support attacking Iran” are still a part of the democrats, who funded genocide in Israel and promised to fund them even more. They will still go along with the war in Iran. They’re still the problem. They are still a bourgeois party supporting the white supremacist, genocidal project that is the United states.
Specific candidates with left policies within the party are worth supporting
No the fuck they are not, because they are all literally on board with genocide. That’s what joining the democratic party IS. These are people who are explicitly choosing to align themself with an organisation that has the explicit, stated goal of supporting and funding the genocide in Gaza, among many other unforgivable crimes.
Are you an accelerationist? If so that’s fine but I really don’t see what the “left” is at a statewide or national level in America. Should we all vote PSL even when they’re polling at 1%? I’m not going to say that there’s not a time and place to do this (there is), but if you’re an electoralist or interested in something other than accelerationism then sometimes voting for a dem (who as a candidate refuses to support genocide or war and supports m4a) can ever so slightly remove the boot of fascism from ppl to help with organizing.
I think it’s interesting you ignore the real material gains of zohran. Would a mayor that didn’t bother to get their constituent freed from gestapo custody be better for “the left”? Seriously interested in what you think about this.
There are multiple levels here. The first level, and first conversion, is actually getting a Leftist foot in the Liberal door to listen to our pitch. To that end, Hasan is the door-to-door salesman that is canvassing for leads, the very top of the funnel. Only some of them will even give him the time of day, let alone listen to his pitch. But a few will, and some of them will move onto the next level where we can go deeper.
That ability to shapeshift is valuable as long as it’s broadly done in the service of left principles without compromising on things like genocide.
Absolutely! It’s all about knowing your audience. Our goal is still converting them to our ideas, but we can tailor our pitch to things they care about.go fucking ham with the esoteric left critiques and struggle sessions
Why is Hasan not promoting zoomer climate Posadism to his audience?!?!?
We know it’s the right approach because it’s animated.I also think, to maybe be more charitable to Hasan than he deserves, there’s something to “some arguments should be had in left-only spaces.” I love the struggle sessions here (I’m a
), but part of why they’re good is they happen in our space with (minimal) interaction from outsiders. He’s mentioned the thing about how PSL is superior to DSA because they don’t air their grievances publicly before, and in some ways there’s a similar vibe. He’s in a public space, so airing some esoteric left critique is counter-productive.BTW - if Hasan ever crosses red lines on genocide, M4A, war, etc. then I think it’s open season. There’s some things we shouldn’t ever compromise on. However, to my knowledge, he’s been remarkably consistent in his anti-imperialist bona fides.
From my perspective I recommend Hasan to certain people at certain points so he can handle the right side of the meme, and I can meet people closer to the left side. saves me energy that way.
:this: and also
I like to see it as a sales funnel, with Hasan out there canvassing leads (the sales funnel) to at least hearing Socialism’s sales pitch (the first conversion). From there the baton is passed to the next group (like us) to further convert those people. Rarely is a sales pitch a one-and-done thing, especially for huge projects like political change, so we need to stair-step. The biggest tool in our toolbox is The Burden Of Being Right. When we make predictions and explain how we got that conclusion it basically does all the real hard work for us.
I say all of this as a former Clintonite Liberal[1] during the Bush years, arguing in good but naive faith with Leftists. I needed to get cooked on low heat as I got most historical events wrong time and time again while Leftists got most everything right.
Yes, I used to say “Socially Liberal Fiscally Conservative” and “Socialism works in theory but not in practice” completely unironically. American brainworms go deep. ↩︎
“Actually if you have a nuanced position on
ChinaHasan you are a cultisttankielib”I watch Hasan to learn how to talk to libs about current political events. His own politics flawed but he has really impressive communicative skills nonetheless.
going to remind people that Hasan repeatedly makes homophobic jokes and never challenges the narrative on Ukraine.
Extremely valid on the jokes and worth mentioning.
On Ukraine (also worth mentioning) I think he gives some challenge, but I he doesn’t really make it a principled rhetorical stand and tbh I kind of agree with that in some ways.
Maybe I’m projecting but I think he leans into “this war sucks ass, NATO baited it and Putin shouldn’t have taken the bait, and fuck all this” or something in that region. I sort of do the same when talking to most people, cause I don’t think it does that much for me to go to bat for Russia. Pointing out the responsibility NATO has is already very expensive with liberals.
Easier to go to bat for Palestine and Iran in full force because they have obviously been shafted by the US/empire/global north innso many ways.
yeah i don’t think the ukraine discussion is very productive with most libs since you have to do a bunch of
shit to explain everything.Palestine and anti-attacking-Iran are way easier and way more people are amenable to it.
To me there is a great shift in liberal discourse. It is very acceptable to be pro Palestine. It is still not acceptable to be anti NATO. To me it is very important to deconstruct the MIC and NATO in the way that it’s been done with Israel in the past years.
Watched his stream for the first time in years this last week due to recent events and he was actively comparing the Russia’s actions in the Ukraine conflict to that of the blunders being carried out by the U.S and israel with Iran, never heard anything critical of the media portrayal
I think I know what you men and yeah that’s what I would expect. He’s not putting a lot of brain cells on it cause like I mentioned in the other comments, he doesn’t see it as super important to bring up for discussion with his audience, and I don’t think he thinks about it as much as other topics.
woke of the day is cringe
I see a Hasan Post…
61 comments.
Just another day in Hexbear.
i DON’T CARE about the streamer
incite* a debate
jeez I don’t know why I’m being so annoying lately. I’m stressed out
These are helpful critiques. My ego can take them.
I will repeat that Hasan actively misrepresents and quote-mines Lenin while doing unconstructive left-bashing on people who criticize his “not entryism”. He does not need to do these things to operate a “pipeline” and in fact it hinders such an effect (without nullifying it, of course).
He still does many positive things.
Yes him bashing people for correctly pointing out that platner is actually a Nazi who still actively supports the US military which he proudly served in is the opposite of being a pipeline to the left. That is sheep dog behavior, like his besties aocia and Bernie.
The military thing is a huge contradiction that the left needs to solve in the U.S. Troop worship is a huge part of the culture here. Not to mention some of the troops and former troops are radicalizing like that marine who got his hand broken. Turns out he’s running for Senate under the Green party.
There have always been radicalized vets and they are regretful of what they participated in. I know plenty of vets who are not radicalized who are anti-military from just going through it, it’s pretty obviously a bad thing. People who are pro military are by and large committed to the other side of the contradiction to the left. They are the front lines for capitalists in the class war, willing to kill even children to maintain the status quo. There are millions of US citizens who are not pro military that can actually radicalize, focusing on how to get the most fascist US citizens to radicalize is really and truly a waste of time
And by solve, do you mean “accept babykillers with open arms once they say healthcare is good”?
they can carry heavy boxes and talk to other boots, but they shouldn’t be in charge of anything bigger than firearms instruction.
i don’t see how we’re doing a revolution without some troops, i don’t know what criteria you want to have for them to be acceptable. maybe they can prove it by blowing up the officers’ mess.
I’m simply saying there has to be more work done than “well americans love troops now so we have to accept barely repentant social democrats into a revolutionary coalition”
We know how that goes
Open arms no, but if they’re willing to kill fascists then I’m open to some sort of reeducation/service to prove loyalty.
Like seriously, if someone’s willing to kill for left principles after changing, I would be open to allying, but with the caveat they’re on a short fucking leash. Put the Battle Royale collar on them until the dictatorship of the proletariat is established.
I should say I’m only half-jokint about the BR collar. Some form of discipline/surveillance must be done with former centrists/liberals in the coalition who might turn reactionary so that they don’t go and hijack the movement.
They can join as junior (controlled) partners. What this looks like in an electoralist context I honestly don’t know unless you have union power substantially higher than it is.
I partially agree, but I do like that he confronts criticism from his left head-on even if he is more dismissive than I would like. I find it mildly constructive in the same way that Florida (or which ever state) is going to add anticommunism directly to their curriculum.
Could be better, but people get a chance to hear it and maybe they bite.
I mean, again he sabotages his ability to educate even by accident on this subject because he misrepresents Lenin (and the terms of the argument) and also mostly just screams at people that they are unintelligent (I swear he did this for like 20 minutes straight on his stream two days ago) along with fossilized ridiculous ideas about how “meeting people where they are” requires running as a Dem when so many people (many Dems included, but especially independents/non-voters for this purpose) rightfully hate the Dems and being a Dem forces you to follow party discipline or get fucked.
He also doesn’t engage with these ideas in their strongest form, just with offhand chatters who are just as likely to be Gonzalite freaks or baby leftists, who he mostly screams at. He hardly talks at all about what it has meant, from a historical perspective, to begin a revolutionary movement or operate a nascent one, he just focuses on the tactics they use when they are bigger (especially the Bolsheviks, of course) while saying that Lenin actually says that to get to that point we need to run candidates in bourgeois parties.
But while he sometimes deflects the third party criticism by pointing to how he boosts PSL, etc. (which is cool and good), he still fails to engage constructively with the people complaining about entryism 98% of the time.
And I think maybe the core issue besides his stubbornness and arrogance is that he is still too taken by harm reduction arguments. He has some resistance to it, but he can’t make the leap to understanding what is to be done until he completely discards their validity.
Yep with your elaboration I’d say I mostly agree
mostly just screams at people that they are unintelligent (I swear he did this for like 20 minutes straight on his stream two days ago)
I get his frustration but yeah he does it to himself (cause it’s the audience he wanted to build), and it’s really fucking annoying cause I usually just wasn’t him to browse the same shit that gets posted here/left twitter so I can passively follow what’s going on. Happens multiple times a week (twice a day, even? Depends on the news of the day)
I think “Dialect” in the title is a typo which should be “Dialectic”.
I’m not sure what you’re talking about comrade, it looks correct to me.
I was the last one to insight a debate about Hasan on this site
And I hope you continue to be the last one.
I’d be more shocked than a dog on a livestream if that were the last Hasan debate.
Sorry bucko, there is a long line behind me, buckle up.
This is what I’ve been saying, think in terms of utilization value for the movement rather than fine tooth combing of takes. Hasan can be naively bullish on electoralism, but he can be more approachable for people just getting into socialist politics than more hardline figures.
It’s a similar thing with Bernie, AOC, Zohran, et al. The criticisms levied against them by the revolutionary left are (usually) valid, but it’s also undeniable that they’re super popular with the normies. So it’s more useful to posit to them “if you like that, you’ll love full strength socialism” than ranting about social fascism.
I’ll go one further. Zohran also was able to get a constituent out of ICE custody with a phone call - if this sort of power becomes more common it’s fundamentally good for organizing (until he proves otherwise).
Obviously we can still critique these figures, but having a mayor who fights for his constituents rather than one that lets hogs run crazy is a good thing overall.
