There was already a Linux phone and even a Firefox phone, but with no wide app support it’s going to be a failure, just like it happened with Windows Phone.

And I’m saying this as a person who would love for a true Linux phone alternative to succeed.

2127…

2227…

2327…

2427…

Surely 2527 will be the year of the Linux phone…

You are taking the flagship phones. If you want a simple, functional phone, you can find some decent ones for a price as low as 200€

Why make this a table instead of a list?

Pretty much. My bank imposes transfer limits on the web portal vs the app, since there’s purportedly more security in the physical device rather than a web page accessible from any system.

While I don’t necessarily disagree with this, it means those apps also have to be searching for things like “Is USB debugging on? Is this running in an emulator? Is the device rooted?”

None of these are bad checks to make from a security perspective, but by relying on the app on a single device as a defacto MFA hurts the ability to manage personal finances when you’re in a position like this, with Google defining the security requirements of their ecosystem at a higher level than any single app.

You don’t need to wait for confirmation someone else is doing x before doing x yourself. Take the first step!

In bizarre legislation systems like the US and the UK if I understand it correctly. I hope the EU will find some non BS thing to do stopping this crap.

And that graphene os will come to good cheap phones 😬

Honestly this, I thought the windows phone was really good. That said I’ll never forgive Microsoft for buying nokia and effectively killing Meego (yes I know sailfish is a thing but it’s pretty stunted growth wise)

I was a windows phone user and the last Windows version is to blame for killing their phones. They released a half baked platform that literally required SOAP for all network traffic. No raw TCP or UDP access just SOAP… a horrible standard based on XML with like 10x the overhead. 6.1 was probably the best but even that was plagued by compatibility issues.

Ya, this is their new workflow for people who dont authentic themselves.

Turn on developer mode and choose the right setting, reboot phone, wait 24h, then you can install anything. You have the option to stay like this, or revert to 24h wait after 7 days.

Edit: they just announced it in the past few days.

Quit internet banking? That’s the only form of banking available when the banking offices only have open on every other Tuesday, during the full moon between 11-12:30, closed for an hours lunch.

I don’t care for cardless payments, but I do use internet banking, you cannot do without at least here, and government apps too are useful and doing with out is just… Impossible.

Mobile banking is mandatory here, if not able to do mobile banking then you can use non free SMS messages, which sucks.

Government apps mandatory I mean that without, you are cut from most digital government services, which is not practical at all. Survivable, but a pain.

For me its maps. Getting directions is mostly why im still on /e/. I would love a linux phone! But im stuck at the moment.

I beg to defer on the device drivers. Maybe you don’t remember, but it’s been decades before Linux would adapt, reimplement or convince manufacturer to provide drivers for it.

Modems first. Graphics card next. Wi-Fi networks also. Winprinters. They all come to my mind. And it’s only by time and effort that now looks just works everywhere.

And now while graphene indeed is doing a great job that I appreciate very much, at the same time they are not developing an operating system. Google is.

There is a huge effort behind developing a full operating system, and it also requires standardization and somebody who defines what the standards are.

At this point, Google is the only one doing that. And if they go closed doors, no open source AOSP clone could keep up with Google changing standards and still be compatible, which would end up as an incompatible operating system.

My point is that currently Android needs Google, and there is no fooling around. We are years away of being independent from Google, whatever the great effort other developers are doing.

I appreciate everybody’s work and I have been a lineage supporter and maintainer myself.

There are tons of issues that we need to solve to be really independent from Google. Forking he’s the least of those.

Yes an alternative to play protect/play integrity… But at very least not vendor locked

I agree with most of everything you wrote.

But banking apps and government apps is not a convenience, is a requirement, especially because, well, by law, they are required to provide an app and there is no choice around it. At least here.

I could indeed go back to bicycle everywhere I want to go and take in the train, but that is not convenience, that is life, so I need a car.

My point is that Google controls Android, whether they graciously allow us to have our foss Android and recompile it from sources is nice, but we still depend on Google and this is not good.

This is what needs to change, and there is no way around it.

Given an open certification process anybody could apply and achieve that, at least in theory. Something that with play integrity you cannot being obscured and proprietary.

So who knows, maybe one day even a Linux phone could. But not unless we get an open certification approach.

Ask you friend if the McDonald app works out of the box.

I know, I don’t care for McDonald app as well, but it’s an easy example of a stupid app requiring play certification to work…

They’re not wrong.
Of course you can fork and have full control over your fork, but Graphene and company want to be able to keep merging AOSP’s code to keep up with features and improvements.
Merging code from a divergent codebase is harder the more divergence there is, and with big codebases it can easily overwhelm small and medium-sized teams.
It’s the same reason there aren’t lots of chromium forks with manifest v2 support, while it is technically feasible, it requires a bigger effort than most projects can afford.
Keeping an open AOSP fork is not a bad idea, but it’s not clear whether GrapheneOS or any other project will be able to keep up with that workload.
Of course Linux phones require a lot of work too, but it’s work oriented towards making it work instead of towards undoing whatever sabotage google ads to AOSP, so it might motivate more people or be easier to do.
Also, both approaches are compatible.
Linux phones can use waydroid, which depends on AOSP, to run Android apps.

I am sorry to say that forking AOSP is not an easy solution.

I cannot talk for Grafene as I don’t know much of that organization, but I have been part of the Lineage Os organization for a little bit as a maintainer, and I can tell you that nobody is actually able to start working on such an effort as an AOSP fork.

I would gladly be happy if such a work would actually be maintained and supported long time, but I’m skeptical that anybody but a big organization has a power and a resource is to do so. After all even Linux is actually brought along by lots of organizations and also commercial organizations.

Yes, we need an open source trust platform, and I believe that is the only real way forward. I would vouch for a Linux mobile operating system, but indeed, air truly open, Android would be good as well.

While play services are mandatory for play cartification, the opposite is not automatic. In fact, bootloader and device fingerprint play an important role and when you replace the stock OS usually play integrity fails by design.

Do you know first hand that you can achieve play integrity with Graphene and no strange tricks like spoof signature or root?

they can’t if your device is rooted or running a different rom

Pretty much, that’s just where we are at. What made Android preferable to me was the freedom it offered and Android vendors kept chipping away at that for years. With this change implemented Android will be nothing more than cheap iOS, by then you may as well raise money to get the real thing or cheap out harder by buying a feature phone if doing so is an option.

How much more locked down will it even be at this rate though? iOS may not let you do whatever you want, but neither does modern Android. As time went on vendors restricted the system further and further.

Using a custom rom now is basically impossible, Google now releases AOSP source code only as snapshots and no longer accepts outside contribution, and now they almost fully killed sideloading and only made this concession after near universal backlash from online spaces. Do you really trust Google won’t try to pull kind of move again?

Android only becomes more closed as time goes on, at this rate it’ll be little more than a cheap iPhone alternative anyway. At least with Apple you get longer software support and a fancy SoC. A community maintained Android hardfork or a Linux phone would be the ideal options here. But the former doesn’t exist, and no smartphone I can get my hands on runs the latter. So iOS it is, or a feature phone.