The guy kinda sounds like a douche…
No, Gam Gam must adapt.
Dudes probably an SF technofascist.
She can have somebody help install a new app on her phone if she needs help. Sorry but statistically you probably voted to create the society that made this necessary, even if they were a Democrat they still probably voted in the primaries for corporate politicians who also push surveillance. It’s basic cause and effect
I can’t tell if you’re missing the joke or if I’m missing it right now. I’m Australian btw, so statistically, I voted in an Australian election.
No, no, everyone on the internet is from the USA AMERICA FUCK YEAH AMIRIGHT BROTHER!! 🦅🦅🦅 red vs blue, dems vs republicans AMIRIGHT!!!
This comment brought to you by aussie.zone.
Right. Look, I want people moving to more independent services too, but I know that sometimes you have to meet people where they are. I keep Meta accounts because sometimes I need to see family pictures or engage with some random FB group.
You can work on getting people to try things and adapt without just going “Fuck you, you do it my way or not at all.”
I mean, if they were somehow forcing them all to move the group chat, sure. That might be a valid argument then.
But as it is, it seems they simply left the group chat, and said “if you want me in it, move it to signal.”
That’s not forcing anyone to do anything. That’s setting a boundary. The people trying to pressure OOP into using software they don’t trust are the only ones trying to force anything.
Isn’t MK in this scenario doing the same thing? Trying to put pressure on their family to use a piece of software they don’t know and aren’t comfortable using?
I mean yeah, MK’s take is more informed, but sides are likely to see it as the other side trying to get them to cave.
Anyway. Rereading, “Signal is better opsec” when your 92yo grandmother wants to plan Thanksgiving is cracking me up.
I think they’re more saying they won’t participate in an imessage group chat. Which would ordinarily be fine. It’s only strange in this case because they’re still using imessage.
Anyway. Rereading, “Signal is better opsec” when your 92yo grandmother wants to plan Thanksgiving is cracking me up.
If palantir knows who’s bringing the stuffing, what else do they know about you and your family?
“I only support a genocidal wannabe oligarch who actively uses his pet propaganda network to directly influence elections and policy across the globe in an effort to bring back feudalism because not doing so would be mildly inconvenient” isn’t exactly the hot take you think it is tbh.
If you kept using Facebook services after Cambridge Analytica then you are part of the problem, period.
Okay.
Tough, Lemmy, or kiss my ass.
No Reddit ever.
Username checks out
No…
No.
I’m tired of being consistently correct and it taking other people a decade to figure that out.
Fuck you, you do it my way or not at all.
I’m an introvert, I’ll be fine without you.
Oh… look how fine you are.
Yeah that’s right, I am that bitch.
Also conceding ground just gives the powers of evil what they want. If more than one person in the group chat got insistent then that would be a lot more leverage. If the majority decide it was time to move the move has already happened and the ones who haven’t moved are the ones who are being obnoxious and sticking to a different app
…
I mean, it has to be satire, they even said “iMessage” instead of text, meaning the guy super obsessed with privacy still uses an iPhone…
And still clearly uses it. Because that’s what the screenshot is from.
Are people taking that as an authentic conversation?
I overestimate people a lot, but I’m genuinely confused if I’m overestimating they hypothetical screenshot and people are dumb enough to be like that, or if I’m overestimating people who see it and can’t tell it’s an obvious joke…
It’s the eternal quesion
Are people taking that as an authentic conversation?
no, but opsec people will genuinely act like this sometimes
I was curious enough to look at twitter…
That’s 100% a shit post account, absolutely nothing they post should be considered authentic:
I did chuckle at the one about “only negotiating with Dr Pepper himself” one tho.
But yeah, anybody that thought they were serious bit the onion
It’s a very thin line these days. It’s like trying to distinguish theonion vs nottheonion articles.
This one was satire, I googled the account name and nothing they post is serious
I’m not doubting there are people who care about privacy but don’t know anything about it. But the account who made the twitter post, was making fun of those people.
They just didn’t put “/s”
And when a screenshot strips all context, it’s really hard to tell. Which is why I actually went to twitter, it’s the only way to be sure.
People need to stop taking things presented in a vacuum with zero context, as whatever they first assume it to be.
Yeah apparently you are (overestimating).
A guy named MK Ultra Victim posting obvious satire isn’t clear enough for a lot of Lemmy users, who’d rather pontificate against the parody.
(It’s a joke m8)
just using the word opsec with your mom when you aren’t a family of International spies is super cringe, imo
Idk you might be her drug dealer
Whenever people start talking about “opsec” and it’s not people doing sensitive work I’m just like “what ops?”
The stuffing recipe is fire
what ops?
sounds like a question a fed would ask 👀
Gotta keep that green bean casserole recipe safe! The world can’t know the secret of a can of cream of mushroom!
Of which no one would know about had they been practicing proper opsec. Point signal.
I use encryption whenever I can not so They can’t see my ops, but so that the encrypted comms of people who actually do need opsec are less suspicious.
Indeed, it makes everyone safer. Especially with all the fascism going around people who are completely innocent of any more genuine wrongdoing could still be kidnapped by Ice based on the color of their skin or because they exercise their free speech rights in ways that in decades past would have been respected. The government has gotten less trustworthy and corporations never really were trustworthy so everyday people have the right to protect themselves
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Indirectly it matters because it means you’re regurgitating talking points instead of thinking about the tradeoffs between privacy and keeping your family talking to each other.
Operation: Thanksgiving with Gam Gam
The op of trying to not get your entire family’s conversations sold to the lowest bidder to be exploited for scams, insurance price gouging, “dynamic pricing”, etc… I guess.
It is important for regular people to protect their privacy so that those at risk are among good company. Otherwise, anyone trying to maintain privacy is obvious and suspicious.
Browsing lemmy is my op
This is an obvious joke yall
Everyone says that until mythos 0days gam gam’s pacemaker
/s in case that wasn’t obvious
hopefully /s
Yeah but it hits dangerously close.
Not as obvious as you might think, it would seem.
Yeah fair
Granny did the risk assessment and decided that ease of use and low-maintenance is more important than security when it comes to everyday family matters.
Not everyone ends in jail when they fuck up their opsec. Granny doesn’t run an online cocaine business.
Granny doesn’t run an online cocaine business.
… or does she ?
She actually does, but cares about opsec there, so word hasn’t gotten out that it’s her.
Ease of use and low maintenance just means inertia. I remember back when people wrote Tech articles saying that Windows XP was intuitive as an argument against Linux but it turns out that intuitive only ever meant it works exactly like Windows xp. Then people got smartphones and using a second type of computer interface turned out to be no big deal. And now Linux market share is growing rapidly, something we were told was never going to happen because of all sorts of reasons that apparently don’t apply.
Tbf linux has gone a long way to remove lot of the inertia. Also, with LLMs, its so much easier to use and learn Linux. Instead of chasing a problem for an hour on old forums you can get direct explanation and an answer in a minute.
Granny is smart enough to get grandson to be doing the leg work and never share a signal chat with him.
Signal is hardly difficult to use tho. It’s just another messaging app
Imagine planning Thanksgiving without proper opsec 🙄🤦♂️
The Wampanoag tried, and see what happened to them.
He’s responding to his mom on iMessage! Can you believe that shit? 😡
The family wouldn’t be installing Signal, a secure messaging app. They would be installing “that app I only use to talk to that one idiot”.
No it is that app where I get my pictures of the grand kids.
Best way to move my family. Want pictures? Move.
Tough instead of being a dick about it i offered to set it up, show em how it’s used and explained in detail, why i think it is bad to use American companies that are transphobe ands support fashism.
So far, most have at least got it installed and are using signal to communicate with me.
Surprising, my family refuses to download even Signal. Says “it’s for paranoids”.
This is why I use session instead of
/s
Exactly what I said to my mum after the first grandkid was born.
The rest of the family followed relatively quickly. Family chat group has been going fire more than 10 years now.
I’ve lived in several authoritarian countries in which surveillance was constant and intense. I told my family and friends many years ago that I was using Signal and they could find me there. It’s literally the signature of my email. Then I proceeded to slow walk all personal non-Signal communications. I’ve found that starting various friend and family groups really helps people get immersed in the app. So does encouraging group video calls to hang out online.
For many years now I’ve had my entire family as well as dozens of friends on Signal. It’s not a quick process, but it can be done.
Even for professionals like lawyers, accountants, tradespeople, real estate agents, whatever. They’re all on Signal if they want to work with me.
Everyone can choose not to use the app. No guilt trips from me. I just use Signal daily, so if someone wants to finds me quickly, they always have the option to do so.
Same for any other sensitive info
You want me to help me with your finances? Passwords? Literally anything that can be used against us? Move your ass to Signal or you can find out yourself gam gam. Not like I won’t show you the very few and very incredibly simple steps to get started…
Given how it’s downright unsafe to use these apps now although social pressure is recommended. If they want their grandkids pictures so bad they’ll figure it out or go without, you’re just trying to protect you and your family. You shouldn’t feel like you need to compromise that for people who don’t know any better or don’t care
My daughter is this way. I just don’t use it and she forwards them to me anyways. There are limits.
Which they download via Signal to forward it to WhatsApp/Facebook etc… They think you are making things complicated: “This is so silly. Why not just post it to Facebook right away. Now I have to do all the work!”
Yeah i had this recently in an ‘everyone needs to move off whatsapp’ topic. It just isnt practical and I would be commiting social suicide if I told everyone they could only talk to me on signal and uninstalled whatsapp.
committing social suicide
It’s often worth the price.
Best option so far.
She needs to adapt lmao
Fucking gam gam. Get with it
I was talking about something similar the other day, about people who “don’t read sms”, and I absolutely don’t get it. This (Gam Gam) is the same: how the fuck do you manage to use Whatsapp, or any other messaging app, and not another? They’re essentially the same! Apart from not having the old chat history, there’s no difference! It’s just mental laziness, IMO.
You’re speaking like someone who doesn’t have elderly relatives…
The brain’s ability to adapt decreases with age, to the point where it becomes very difficult to teach an elderly person anything new, and eventually even for them to remember or be shown how to do the things they’ve done for years but have now forgotten. It’s very frustrating for everyone involved, and expecting them to adapt is expecting them to do something they simply can not do.
Okay, how does this explain the Boomers and up who seem to only be capable of using Facebook?
Like, if it’s about adaptation, they had email and SMS long before Meta started their “clean” version of MySpace that has gotten so much worse than what it replaced.
I’m stuck with a yearly Christmas card from a lot of older relatives because they can’t manage to step back an use services they did use before the big tech algorithmic fuckery took over.
They sunk their time and effort into something that offered intuitive ease of use and photos they wanted beyond occasional messages. To just sit on an iPad and tap it like a rat hitting the feeder bar in a laboratory takes very little additional effort to learn. Scroll until you dopamine centers light up, tap for more, tap all red notifications. It’s easier than using email or WhatsApp or Signal because they’re using it like a steam of consciousness.
If you ask Granny on FB to fine a direct message from a month ago, it’s possible that’s too challenging a task because it’s not right there.
There’s dementia and then there’s a lifetime of intellectual laziness and incuriousness. My great grandfather and his brother lived into their 90s and coped with the changing world just fine. My grandparents are getting up there and they’re still sharp-witted and active and aren’t afraid of new technology. Many people aren’t lucky and lose their faculties through no fault of their own but complacency is like giving up on your future.
except they’re not the same. at all. one comes with the phone she got from the walmart with a prepaid card and she’s not even really logged into it.
Just make a Signal account for Gam Gam too.
The only thing that keeps people submissive to the whims of technofeudalism is their intolerance to change, which worsens with age in an inactive mind.
Elderly people being intolerant of change for neurological reasons is going to be a major social problem over the coming decades with population pyramid being what it is. We’re going to have to learn this tell people no, things must change and you don’t have to be happy about it but you don’t have the right to stop it. Things are already getting delayed and I fear it will get worse.
As a person who very slowly moved my family and friends to matrix by bringing up the conversation one at a time and helping them get started, that guy sounds like a next level asshole.
My entire family group chat moved to signal in one night when I asked. Some of them already had it, but everyone being on signal and not just texting made me so happy I made a Lemmy post about it at the time.
I live in the Netherlands so everyone uses Whatsapp. Which is worse than just SMS, even if it’s less secure. Giving your data willingly to the Zuck is beyond stupid. I setup Whatsapp Business to send an autoreply that says that I’m on Signal if they want to contact me. Almost no one switches over and they just send me a SMS message. To be honest I don’t care, I’m just glad that I’m not part of many family group chats anymore.
So many of my kids’ activities have a WhatsApp group for the parents to discuss upcoming games, practices and snack schedules. I always catch some flack for refusing to install zuck’s spyware on my phone.
Oh you’re a misantrope like me and murdered your family, too, huh? Yea, I think that was the right call. On one hand, I don’t get to hear my uncle’s crazy Nam stories. On the other hand, and least I don’t have to satisfy my nympho cousin anymore. Now I can just focus on myself when I fuck her.
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Just leave Gam Gam behind. She neither understands nor cares what happens in a group chat. Gam Gam is just happy to eat turkey.
She’s the smartest of them all
She’s gonna die soon anyway. Why are we wasting money feeding it? (I have a lot of trauma around my grandparents, can you tell?)
You will not have many friends with that opinion, but I understand, what you mean. I wonder how I will react at that age; if I want to be dead or if I want to enjoy every bit of family fun I can have.
If you ignore the ethical part, if you die, a biochemical process stops, the organic matter starts to decompose. Your “soul” will be gone and lost forever. So why feeding it with more experiences? A difficult, yet very interesting topic from a philosophical point of view.
Both my grandfathers were either dead or a stroke made them nearly incommunicable. So I only had my grandmothers.
One infantalized me my entire upbringing. If I ever had to stay with her she would treat me like a small child even though I was between 8-13 years old. Forcing me to bed early, giving me little amounts of food, etc. My other grandmother tried to literally kidnap me from my parents, accusing my mother (who is a god damn angel to me and one of the best human beings I know) of being unable to raise me properly and that the ‘church’ would raise me better than she could.
I’m nearly 40. Only one grandmother still clings to life. I’ve hardly spoken to her in nearly 20 years.
At this point it’s completely reasonable to say that if somebody can’t get with the program then they’re going to need to communicate through an intermediary who does understand basic computer security. Social pressure is the only way that we’re going to get normal people to get on with the program so we need to make them feel like they’re the ones being annoying for refusing good security
I was able to get my family to move to signal but that was because they were already on WhatsApp.
This is a shitpost but some people are taking it a bit too seriously, a family group chat doesn’t have to risk profile to require a level of “OpSec” that would require everyone to be on e2ee messaging. Don’t isolate yourself from your family over MMS group chat messages, maybe just don’t share your IBS flare ups in it if you are that concerned.
Yes, you do. Because we live in an era where Uber driver or nurse pay is based on surveillance: the more desperate they are, the lower the payment offered for the trip or the shift. Because we’re facing surveillance pricing also, where surveillance is going to compute how much you’re ready or desperate to pay for something, regardless its cost, and that might be higher than your reighbour’s result. Because we live in an era where abortion is banned in multiple places and who know what else will be later, after one of your relative will have told you what will become a confession?
So yes, you do give a damn, and no you don’t talk over corporate surveillance networks as much as you can avoid them.
Trust me, with my incest fetish, getting the family to adopt even the most minimal OPSEC was both laborious AND crucial.
huh?
ఠ _ ఠ
I have the world’s largest incest fetish, bro. I wrote about it in my book. My name is Victorious Phoenix (government name Victoria) and I love in Tempe, Arizona. I live next to a middle school! My book is in my library, which is in my history somewhere. I’m new to Lemmy World! I hope to make lots of ffree?
Are you a fren?
Would be better if Signal hadn’t removed fucking SMS from their app
Except no because that provides a false sense of security to people who don’t understand how SMS works. Either you care about privacy or you dont. If you take privacy seriously you should’t use sms perioid.
I’ve seen it convincingly argued that an end-to-end encrypted chat app should not have the option for non-encrypted messaging so that you can’t even accidentally compromise security.
The entire point of signal is that its E2E without much thinking
Yeah but it gives people that take security seriously an opportunity to move over people that don’t. I had so many people moved over and most of them switched back to sms when it was dropped from signal. Now my options are pestering people I care to do something they don’t want to, cut off contact, or suck it up and lose security myself.
Its funny. They cut it so non-technical people don’t assume their message is secure when it isn’t. But these people are now not going to adopt signal since they don’t care and the convenience is more valuable than security.
I would like to use an E2E encrypted chat app today. I will now decide who to message.I would like to send Gam Gam a message. Which app was she using again? I’m not sure, I’ll just use SMS.
Or just call them which is probably what they would really prefer.
Should it be a Signal call? I guess I’ll default to insecure.
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They saw the writing on the wall. Their announcement came shortly after Google decided to close their messaging RCS framework to any third party messengers. If the Google platform is trying to kick everyone out of standardized communication, why bother trying anymore?
