Ukraine do have a nazi problem, but russia isnt fighting against those nazis thats for sure.
For me its an inter imperialist war so I dont care much about it
Everywhere seems to have a Nazi problem. Not trying to downplay that specific issue because it does exist, but Ukraine has taken a lot of steps to remove those groups from positions of power. A lot more than other nations.
Have they disbanded the azov battalion?
Has Russia disbanded the Rusich Group?
Oops! All Nazis
$ ./once_more_with_feeling.shPutin, the Tsar
Putin has modeled his rule after the Tsarist monarchy of the Russian Empire. He notably despises communism and blames it for the collapse of the USSR. He calls himself “president” but many within the state Duma believe the title to be an embarrassing western descriptor and would prefer to bestow on him the title of “pravitel” or “ruler”.
But Putin ran into a bit of a problem. Just as to be called Caesar you need to rule Rome, to be called czar you need to rule over all of Rus. For him, the cultural, historical, and religious significance of Kievan Rus was just too large to be ignored.
When it existed, the Russian Empire tried to erase the other eastern Slavic languages from their shared cultural memory. They acted as if there was no Ukraine and never had been, just as with Belarus. According to the Tsarists, Ukrainians had always been Russians and had no history of their own. The Ukrainian and Belorussian languages were banned. Ukrainian nationalism was a threat to the underlying myths of Russia and threatened the czars’ attempts at creating an “All-Russian People.”
Putin is emulating their rule and presents himself as a tsar-like figure. He’s built a massive, opulent palace for himself, with gold-plated double-headed eagles, a clear Imperial Russian symbol, everywhere—even in his personal strip club. Similarly, the Russian Orthodox Church helps him pacify the population and supports whatever myths Kremlin wants to glorify. He wanted to go down in the history books as a grand unifier of Russian lands—if not under the same government, then definitely as the hegemon of the Russian world.
Putin wants it both ways: to take credit for the Soviet legacy and, at the same time, to be viewed in the same light as the emperors and czars of old. Therefore, he’s had to bring back and reaffirm the old, imperial myths and values—and to do that, he has to get Kyiv under his thumb. After all, it was the restored Kievan Rus that became Russia, the “Third Rome”. Ukraine going its own way, claiming Kievan Rus as its legacy, moving away from Moscow, getting autocephaly for its own orthodox church—all of this runs contrary to Russian state mythology.
These imperial myths are what define Russia, what it even means to be a Russian. Without them, Russia just stops being Russia in the eyes of many. Putin is convinced that if this social glue is disrupted, then Russia will just split up in pieces again—and if he allows that to happen, then his legacy is ruined. For him, there can be no separate Ukrainian language, culture, or history.
That is where his mind is at; stuck in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Ultranationalists support ultranationalism up until the point there’s an overlap in blood and/or soil which case ultranationalists will zealously butcher each other. Nothing is more legitimizing than warfighting.
Exactly true, but it’s more than that.
One of the more positive aspects of post-WWII, United Nations-facilitated geopolitics was the belief that the world ought to care about human rights. That when a country was horribly mistreating its own people the world had a right and a duty to intervene.
Fascists and racists and ethno-nationalists really don’t like that idea.
So you have ultra-nationalist right-wing movements all over Europe, who would happily murder each other for speaking the wrong language or being the wrong shade of white, working together with each other and Russia and the US against the EU and the UN, because anyone telling them “you can’t murder people you don’t want in your country” is their common enemy.
working together with each other and Russia and the US against the EU and the UN
Precisely. Undermining the EU and the UN is the common thread.
“All Nazis in the west support Russia” is a bold claim. I haven’t seen any of the far-right parties in Europe (Meloni, AfD, VOX, Finland, France…) oppose the rise to 5% of GDP in military expenditure, I may be wrong about a few exceptions (far right in Hungary) but most fascist parties with parliamentarian representation in the EU do support the war budgets, don’t they?
Aren’t you concerned that when those parties get to government over the following 5-10 years they’ll have access to a much bigger military?
Meloni has indeed been a huge positive surprise. But the far right party of France at least is deeply pro-Russia: https://www.politico.eu/article/france-far-right-manifesto-russia-nato-national-rally/
Germany’s AfD also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AfD_pro-Russia_movement
Hungary, obviously. At least for now – the next elections might bring an interesting change there.
It’s way more typical that far-right is pro-Russia than pro-Ukraine. This makes sense from a political viewpoint, since the politics of Putin are far-right. If he wasn’t such a warmonger and thus a direct national threat, I’m sure more of them would be blatantly aligned with him.
edit Also check out this recent voting result for the modernization of the German army:
The far-right AfD overwhelmingly voted against it.
Don’t forget the GOP, who has since the beginning of the conflict been doing everything they can to undermine American support
LePen’s stance has changed over these past 3 years if I’m not mistaken. As for Germany, the “modernization of German army” is actually the conscription thing, right? It says “military service modernization act”, not modernization of the German army. Regardless, it’s not so relevant what AfD votes while in opposition if the law will be passed regardless. You have Finland’s far right approving the military expenditure while in government, the Spanish VOX supporting it too, Italy, Poland, Baltics… Sure, I agree there may be doubts about Germany and France, but looking at all of Europe, it’s not like the far right at large supports Russia.
I’m beginning to suspect these Nazi folks aren’t very honest.
The honesty of Nazis is a peculiar thing. In Sweden, the far-right party that the government collaborates with, who were started by literal ex-SS nazis and neo-nazis, have celebrated other ex-SS nazis, have worn swaztikas and so on. They have this “sociologist” guy whose argument for this party not being nazis anymore is basically “Look at Golden Dawn and other nazi organizations, they are open about them being nazis. Nazis are honest about being nazis. That is why the Sweden Democrats cannot be nazis, because if they were, they’d be open about it”.
Which is fucking stupid because the Nazis initially weren’t honest about being Nazis. There’s a reason they called it National Socialism and not National Killjews-ism.
And every dumb fuck magat clings to that National Socialist name, unable to read any more about how right wing Nazis are.
They’re the Reich wing for a reason.
I mean they did support socialism but only for other Nazis. Pointing that out isn’t an attack on socialism, it was just part of the Nazi identity.
If people want to demonize socialism or jump to the conclusion that socialism=Nazism, then feel free to call them an idiot for being an idiot.
However, now more than ever, it is very important that people be aware of the fact that national socialism was a very important aspect of the Nazi party because we are seeing Trump et al., using the same playbook.
National socialism means you can have access to health care, you can have housing, you can have a social safety net, “as long as you are one of us.”
For example, the Trump administration literally wants to give “American families” money to allow one parent to stay home and take care of kids, instead of both parents working full time and paying for childcare. Sounds awesome. That would be a great thing for a country to offer all parents raising children. However, it’s not going to be offered to everyone. It will only be offered to traditional two parent households. That means gay parents, blended families, single parents etc., basically anyone who doesn’t fit their view of what an American family is supposed to look like, will not be eligible to receive this assistance.
The social safety net offered by National Socialists acts as an incentive to in-group. It’s the promise of the kind of life you will receive if you join us. It’s what you could have had this whole time if not for the out-group, “them”. They are the reason America can’t be great, but if you join us and help to get rid of them, we can make it great again.
Spoiler, the idealized “again” they promise never actually existed. It’s prefigurative tradtionalism. They’re projecting an idealized and fictional nostalgia on to the past. Even when white protestant men were the only group allowed to flourish, a class based caste system, which still exists to this day, kept the same families and friends of those families in power by exploiting everyone else.
Step 1: Hoard more resources than you can ever use in a lifetime, use the hoarded resources to control everyone else, continue to exploit the people you control and add to your hoarded resources, then let the exploited blame each other when the resources you’re hoarding run thin for them, but not you. Pass the hoarded resources down to your offspring and teach them that your superior bloodline allows for favorable traits and values not possessed by the unwashed masses.
Step 2: Create an in-group. Ensure the exploited don’t stop fighting amongst themselves long enough to notice what you’re doing by picking an arbitrary measurement like skin color, and pretend that you and a segment of the people you exploit are more alike than the rest of the unwashed masses. Allow just enough privileges to keep the in-group happy enough to believe the lie. If they start to ask too many questions about why there don’t seem be enough resources to go around no matter how hard they work, blame the out-group.
Step 3: Promise the in-group their lives would be so much better if they eliminated the out-group so you don’t have to dip into your hoarded resources to keep them happy and distracted. Continue the cycle of exploitation, hoarding, and distraction.
“Democracy is incompatible with freedom,” because “freedom”= you being free to labor under an exploitative ruling class that you will never be allowed to compete with. That’s also why you’re not supposed to go to college and think too much, or ask too many questions about why there seems to be so many repetitive cycles in history, politics, and human behavior.
Look at the incentive offered to ICE agents. The economy is in shambles, people are being laid off left and right. Previously protected government jobs are being destroyed. However, ICE is hiring. No degree, no experience necessary, huge sign on bonus, plus benefits. You get to make more than you ever dreamed of in any other line of work. You just have to be willing to help us round them up so we can make America great again.
Socialist means left wing though.
And north Korea is a democracy as in Democratic People’s Republic of Korea sure Thing buddy. Just because someone says je is something doesnt mean He is that Thing :) they can LIE
North Korea, is a hole nother story bud.
Sorry I don’t understand are you saying socialists aren’t left wing?
Literally no one here is talking about socialism being left wing but you. We all know it is, but the Nazis used the name to hide the fact they were actually far right wing. Any questions?
They are, but just because someone says they are something or call themselves such doesn’t make that true
I thought they were saying that people tend to use fake names when being assholes.
Are you saying the US is left wing? Because they have a lot of socialist policies.
Are you saying the US army is left wing? Because they have a complete socialist structure.
The meaning of left and right wing were lost long ago.
Right: Supporters of the old order, the monarchy, and aristocracy.
Left: Supporters of the revolution, republicanism, and secularism, who wanted to change the existing system.
From the original definition the whole world is pretty much left unless they are ruled by a aristocracy or a monarch.
Of course you could also argue most Democracies are in name only and the wealthy still call all the shots. So that would mean the whole world is really right.
I think this highlights how useless these words have become even without the extreme polarization they have in places like the US.
or clever
there are nazi factions of the russian armed forces
To Russians, ‘Nazi’ is not a political ideology or a party, it’s simply “Whoever is against Russia right now”. Are you against Russia? You’re a Nazi, it’s as simple as that. If they had to contend with the idea that Nazism is a political ideology, they’d have to start calling themselves Nazis, which doesn’t work in the Russian psyche.
So, when Russians say that Ukrainians are Nazis, what they really mean is “Ukrainians are fighting back when we kill their children. That makes them enemies and therefore Nazis”
It also doesn’t help that there is an… Interesting… Relationship between Ukrainian nationalism and Naziism. A lot of Ukrainian national heroes who are fondly remembered for fighting for Ukrainian independence against the Soviets did so by aligning with the Nazis in World War 2, and many of them were explicitly fascist and anti-semitic. It’s a deeply uncomfortable fact that there is a decent amount of overlap between Ukrainian nationalism and Naziism. Not everyone fighting for Ukraine is a Nazi, but all the Ukrainian Nazis are fighting for Ukraine. To make matters worse, Ukraine isn’t really in a position to turn these guys down when they offer to fight for them and provide support because they’re desperate, and it’s politically difficult because they’re pretty popular.
Of course, not to let Russia off the hook there are a lot of fascist antisemites on their side too. I mean their big mercenary group was literally called the Wagner Group which is pretty fucking sus. I just think that a lot of times we fall into “Russia Bad, therefore Ukraine Good” when the real story is more complicated. In a vacuum, I wouldn’t say Ukraine would be a good country to align with, but western powers kind of have to if they want to check Russian expansion in Europe.
Yes. The current modern neo-nazis behave similarly: they claim only the others (the ones they don’t like) are Nazis and their own kind just want the “freedom” to say and do what they like, e.g. get rid of people of color, or political opponents after that. They also frequently claim they’re the victims themselves (e.g. claims of "white genocide* => whites “need to fight back”)). But they would never call themselves Nazis even though they are doing Nazi things regularly. Fascists twist and redefine words and meanings to serve their own agenda.
Small correction: They go after political opponents, then minorities. Can’t have organizations that can protect the minorities when you put them in camps.
That makes a lot of sense, thanks.
It’s more like what Russian government wants than actual reality.
My understanding is Russians don’t have the same memory of nazis as The West does; to them “nazi” is short for “someone who seeks to slaughter Russians, by invading if at all possible.” To combat these “nazis” (and for a dozen other reasons), Russia is going further and further right as well as more authoritarian.
Actual (neo-)nazis love that, so they love Russia(ns) for it.
Frankly, I think it gets a bit confusing when we lump every horrible authoritarian into the ‘Nazi’ bucket.
Not to validate Russia’s assertion of any such authoritaranism in Ukraine, just broadly speaking to the ‘they are a Nazi’ accusations. Like even if a lot of these folks aren’t “Nazis” they are still bad, but the language is like they might be fine so long as they aren’t specifically a Nazi…
Nazi = fascist in western circles these days, it is as simple as that
The Russian “Nazi” = the western “terrorists” = evil bad motherfuckers have to be exterminated = propaganda to keep people motivated to do war activities
I think his observation still stands when we swap out Nazi for fascist.
Frankly, I think it gets a bit confusing when we lump every horrible authoritarian into the ‘Nazi’ bucket.
There are non-fascist authoritarians. I agree that it might be confusing, but in terms of initial political resistence, I think the first steps are the same.
I agree, though at least fascism is a little more vague and I think that is at least more workable than the very specific Nazi designation.
Ok legitimate question bc I’ve been having this debate for a while, and I’m genuinely curious to hear input and opinions on this.
What makes a Nazi a Nazi other than fascist behavior, a love of authoritarianism, and nationalism + socialism (but only for those who are deemed worthy/appropriate for the nation)?
In the U.S. they call themselves Christian Nationalists, but they do check all those boxes.
From what I’ve heard about Putin’s take on nationalism, Christianity (via the Russian Orthodox church), and Russia’s own form of national socialism being the ultimate goal/promise made/reward for patriots willing to fight for their country, they also check all the boxes.
So what makes them not Nazis other than they don’t want to accept the label?
A person can dodge accusations of Nazi by just not having any affinity with specific Nazi things. No swastika, no praising Hitler, and you can make an argument that you aren’t a “Nazi” per se, since that is a very specific thing technically. You can be a totally authoritarian figure with every whiff of the badness of the Nazis, but not a Nazi.
In Trump’s case we’ve got check marks for almost everything, including Nazi salutes. No obvious swastikas I’m aware of, and the numbers of people who have actually died or disappeared while in ICE custody isn’t close to the Holocaust, but we are also only one year into his full fascist term…
Authorotarian right wing people believe in a natural heiraechy in which they put a public strong man at the top. His party is reactionary in directing government function. There is typically a focus on some enemy within which must be removed from society to make it pure again. This is where genocide has occurred historically.
The Socialism part of National Socialism was an appeal to the working class in Germany. A brand name may not be related to the product. I can see how some would confuse the strong man’s, “I am the state”, as public ownership of the means of production.
The Socialism part of National Socialism was an appeal to the working class in Germany.
How is this any different than what Trump is doing with ICE?
Most people are being laid off in the U.S. right now, but ICE is desperate to hire. You don’t need any experience or education to join. In fact, education and thinking too much is downright discouraged, along with the trap of “toxic empathy.”
You get a really great salary, a huge sign on bonus, and benefits. If I quit my job today (with an M.S. and a decade of experience) and went to work for ICE, I might actually be able to afford to buy a house, stop paying rent, and start saving money instead of barely scraping by month to month just to pay my bills (when I can) and buy groceries.
All I would have to do is be willing to round up the “enemy from within,” for the Trump administration and send them to overcrowded private prisons and detention centers where people are literally disappearing and dying preventable deaths on a regular basis.
There’s no way in hell I would be willing to do that because I’ve seen this before and recognize it for exactly what this is. However, I can see how appealing the offer would be if you’re unaware of what’s really going on or if you’re willing to just dissociate and not think about the fact that you’re a fucking Nazi just following orders.
I hope to God I never find myself in a situation where I need to choose between joining ICE (and commiting legalized crimes) or turning to “illegal crime” just to keep my family fed, but my job has just barely continued to be funded multiple times already in 2025.
Again, nobody is hiring right now other than ICE, but for me, I honestly believe “illegal crime” would be the preferable option. I also recognize that by chosing “illegal crime,” I then become a target for incentivized incarceration and officially “part of the enemy from within” (more so than I already am for simply pointing out what’s actually happening here). I risk losing my family, being rounded up as part of a quota by the Trump administration to arrest 5000 people in my city in an operation targeting crime and immigration, and sent to one of the many overcrowded private prisons that this administration and their wealthy friends continue to profit from via these arrest quotas and constantly expanding incarceration rates, alongside the profits they’re making from immigration detention centers/deportation pipelines, Palantir, and other investments in private tech surveillance that helps them spy on and round up these enemies from within.
I’m sorry if this comes off as a little angry/harsh, but how in the fuck am I not supposed to notice the similarities between the Trump administration and Nazism?
It’s not. That’s the problem with them
What makes a Nazi a Nazi other than fascist behavior, a love of authoritarianism, and nationalism + socialism (but only for those who are deemed worthy/appropriate for the nation)?
Genocide
And Nazis DID NOT love socialism, lol. Quite the opposite.
Russia ticks all boxes of genocide too.
Kidnapping kids, terrorizing civilians, killing POWs and their leaders stated that eradicating Ukraine as a nation is their main objective.
Many tankies are apologetic of Russian imperialism as well.
I think they’re just in a cult though, which is the only explanation for why they all seem to be trying to be as difficult to communicate with as possible, as if they’re all trying to get people to hate whatever they’re pretending to stand for which they also rarily can elaborate on.
I’ve been accused of being a tankie before and I don’t think my accuser even knew what they meant by tankie. We certainly weren’t discussing the USSR’s decision to send in tanks to Hungary in the 1950’s, which is where the term originated.
I am also not a supporter of Putin’s war of aggression, although I do understand why he thought the war was necessary, and agree that those reasons are real (not saying that the war was necessary, just saying that Putin is not a lunatic). I also offer critical support to any country that takes a stand against the western hegemony, particularly if their stance is against the capitalist exploitation perpetrated by the west around the world, since I am a communist.
However, never has a person who uses the term “tankie” ever actually engaged in an open discussion about those beliefs. “Tankie” is a conversation ender that kills all subsequent thought the minute someone throws it out.
With those experiences, is it any wonder that people you call tankies don’t engage in conversation with you? Why would they, when they have no expectation of even being heard?
However, never has a person who uses the term “tankie” ever actually engaged in an open discussion about those beliefs. “Tankie” is a conversation ender that kills all subsequent thought the minute someone throws it out.
Many people, especially on this site, self identify as tankies. They also have utterly unreasonable view points that are against any gradual change and think any positive change must be as a result of an instant bloody revolution they also won’t personally fight in or start.
The fact that you tried to use the term they personally identify as a way to dismiss my criticisms and pretend it was I that was being the problem speaks to you not actually wanting to address the point I’m making.
Yeah, you’re not a tankie. I’ve seen people on here essentially saying Russia is doing completely normal things right now, definitely not corrupt, and it’s citizens are not being lied to. They’re tankies
And yet I’ve been banned from certain comms that have no tankies rules simply for stating I’m a communist. That’s why I say it’s a thought-killer. People who use tankie generally don’t allow themselves to see any nuance around anything that has any whiff of communism. (Which is getting a little off topic, as Russia definitely has nothing to do with communism now.)
I am also not a supporter of Putin’s war of aggression, although I do understand why he thought the war was necessary, and agree that those reasons are real (not saying that the war was necessary, just saying that Putin is not a lunatic).
Since you understand the Russian POV that big countries have spheres of influence that they control and little countries do not have agency, then you obviously also agree that the Americas are within the US sphere of influence and understand why they did all the coups that they did (not saying they were necessary, just saying that the US is not any more imperialist than Russia)?
That’s a nice straw man, but not at all representative of the Russian POV. In their minds, they are America during the Cuban missile crisis. NATO, an organization that has positioned itself expressly as enemies of Russia, has been building up military presence on Russia’s doorstep. Simultaneously, following the Maidan coup, Russian nationals were targeted for oppression by far-right Ukrainian state elements as well as Nazi paramilitaries. Those are Russia’s stated reasons for the war, and they are based on facts.
Now, I don’t think those reasons justify a war of aggression, and Ukraine’s Nazi problem largely seems to be resolved, especially since Zelenskyy took power, but those are the real reasons the war started.
Pretty incomparable to the USA’s interventions, whose targets never posed a threat to American lives or national security.
I can see why people say you’re a tanking considering how you’re literally parroting Russian talking points and having a suspiciously large amount of understanding for the excuses of Russian imperialism while not sharing the understanding with other imperialist nations.
At least we both agree that the correct solution to the Cuban missile crisis was the invasion and genocide of Cuba, or something.
You are literally proving my point. You refuse to engage with any facts that go against the narrative of “Russia bad” while using a slur in an attempt to discredit me.
Also, it’s ridiculous to imply that just because I understand something, that means I support it. As usual, the anti-communist resorts to lies and slander.
I’m refusing to engage with “facts” that are false. Russia is currently engaging in a genocidal war of aggression. They are bad.
Also, it’s ridiculous to imply that just because I understand something, that means I support it.
That’s what I’m saying. I’m not saying you’re a tankie because you’re parroting false Russian propaganda talking points, I’m just saying I understand why people are saying that you are one. You know, the exact same thing that you’re doing where you’re trying to mask your support of Russia by saying you don’t support it, but you do understand it.
Also, it’s ridiculous to imply that just because I understand something, that means I support it.
I don’t disagree with this. I disagree with your assertion that you understand the reasons for the war.
while using a slur
- Tankie is not a slur.
- I didn’t call you a tankie.
Why is the governing party of Ukraine centre while Russia is far-right.
Not to mention how the little country treats queer people way better.
Well, yeah, the bar on that last one isn’t high
just gotta beat one of the worst countries on earth for queer people
Because MAGA is in denial. They think Nazis are left wing.
“BuT tHeY aRe ThE nAtIoNaLiSt socialists So ThEy MuSt Be LuBrEeLs” - these dipshits, while declaring themselves white nationalists
“DEMOCRATS are the ones who wanted to KEEP SLAVERY” 🙄
It’s so easy to feel dumb people. The real problem is just how many people are dumb. Looking at education in the US, it’s only gonna get worse.
No they don’t, they very well know what they are. But they like to lie about it to deflect from it. That is what nazis do.
While simultaneously waving Nazi flags
I remember seeing a video posted fairly early on, showing a award ceremony where an LDR/DPR fighter was given medal for “his contributions to denazification”. Both him and his commander was smugly smirking at each other. But what really tore it? The guy being awarded the medal was wearing shoulder patches featuring a Totenkopf and a Valknut.
I’ve lost count of the number of photos from Wagner Group youth camps featuring Nazi iconography. Never mind people like Dmitry Utkin and his tattoos.
Not all Nazis, not every right wing idiot is the same. There are different divisions between them.
Because the Nazi ideology is no globalistic in the sense that Russians can think they are the “master race” and Ukrainians can think that they are the “master race”.
That said, “fighting again Nazis” is just Russian propaganda.
A lot of fascists are actually globalistic in the sense that they want to propagandise everyone to be isolationists, tribalistic and anti-democratic.
Its not even unified within a nation. Plenty of nazis in the US have lots of beef with other nazis in the US.
Its really just big-tent fascism.
“What kinda politics do you usually have here?”
“Oh we got BOTH kinds! Big-Tent Fascism AND Big-Tent Controlled Opposition!”
