- cross-posted to:
- luigimangione@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- luigimangione@lemmy.world
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Luigi saved many lives. More people need to live up to the example set by one of our greatest heros
Not that the American health insurance system is really “savable”, but one great initial measure might be to require a doctoral sign-off on every rejection. So, if doctor A claims a patient needs a prescription, and the insurance company wishes to deny it, then doctor B must stake their degree on the fact that the patient does not need it.
I feel like insurance companies would pretty quickly run out of doctors willing to sign such things.
Having worked in medicine…you do not want doctors policing doctors.
Luigi Mangione sacrificed so much for essentially so little, just heads on a hydra for a complacent populace still asleep at the wheel. What the fuck.
St. Luigi Mangione is innocent, and even if he’s not – he is.
Besides, he was with me at my house when he was killing that guy
tbh i heard that guy had a family history of just doing that
Once is a fluke, Twice is coincidence, three times is a trend. People notice trends.
The populace isn’t at the wheel and isn’t asleep, and to suggest otherwise is cruel. There is genuinely nothing they can do about it except implode their own lives for zero net benefit.
Oh wait, I forgot Luigi’s actions totally solved healthcare forever. I guess it’s not a zero benefit if there are tangible benefits.
Please tell me the tangible benefits I can experience right now.
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The sad thing is, that the US is throwing a lot of money into their “healthcare system”. More than most first world countries. Yet, the population is getting… nothing. So basically, you’re paying taxes for nothing, other than filling the pockets of a bunch of greedy oligarchs. Your system is broken, and was broken for a very long time, but decades of propaganda brainwashed a large chunk of the population to just accept that, and so they spout nonsense about “defending Europe” as some form of excuse that their fellow countrymen and women are literally dying of preventable and curable diseases.
And the biggest irony is, that a healthy workforce and population would be beneficial even in capitalism. Most European countries understood that.
This confirms one Luigi isn’t enough
Seems unwise to piss off people who haven’t long left to live
There’s a book where a bunch of people who have terminal illnesses form a kind of terror cell to suicide bomb health care boards to force the system to change. I’m almost surprised it hasn’t happened yet.
Is it ok to incite things via writing a book where people do something and it works out well, rather than just saying everyone should do it?
Of course it’s OK. As to whether it’s legal, ask a lawyer.
do you happen to remember the title or any other details about it? cuz that’s going straight on my fiction reading list lol
I figured out which one it was.
It was “Radicalized”, one of the 4 short stories in Cory Doctorow’s book “Radicalized”.
You can buy it on his own site:
P.S. Unauthorized Bread is also great, from that same book.
oh sweet my library has it. thanks!
In a country where guns are famously accessible.
It never was. I was always hopefully that his actions would set off a wave of retaliation from the public, but everyone just went back to their instagram feeds.
The problem for me is that USA, one of the richest country in the world, has constantly, democratically and collectively kept voting against universal healthcare. I feel for this person but it’s the choice of this country, shoting CEOs won’t fix it.
It’s just a symptom of the fucked up system we’re in. Something like >70% of the americans want universal healthcare. Having a representative instead of a direct democracy already neuters the population’s power, and then you throw in everything else like the first-past-the-post system that ensures two parties, and rich fucks controlling both parties easily, and thus both parties having no incentive to meaningfully help the population, and so on and so forth ad nauseam.
Blaming the population as a whole is accurate, but also denying the way the system is set up.
There’s also the propaganda problem. Americans have to be some of the most propagandized people among countries with a supposedly “free press”.
Over 90% of Democrats, 50% of independents, and even 30% of Republicans want universal healthcare. (check your favorite poll there are many).
The citizens of the USA have constantly, democratically, and collectively voted FOR universal healthcare, repeatedly, in the only ways they can legally do so.
If our system was democratic, we’d have universal healthcare already. Unfortunately, it’s not.
Democratic leadership has ignored 90% of their own registered voters (and the 30% Rs and 50% independents)… just as they ignore 70% support for higher minimum wages. Republicans also ignore their own constituents.
Anyway, massive public support for universal healthcare, higher minimum wage, ending support of Israel, and so on. There’s nothing democratic or collective about any of this. Open your eyes.
The USA is a plutocracy. It has the best politicians money can buy.
Sure, but why don’t all do something about it? Many other countries have, while not being as rich.
At the end of the day a guy that is explicitly against it won the popular vote, and still have at least 40% of approvals, on bad days, that’s what I’m saying.
Universal healthcare was never on the ballot.
deleted by creator
Yeah but trump was.
Are you implying that his opponents were even remotely pro universal health care? Because they weren’t.
I’m pointing that he won the popular vote so it doesn’t even matters.
I’m pointing out that him winning or not has nothing to do with universal health care, because no one on the ballot is pro universal healthcare.
I mean ok if you want lol. trump and Harris are exactly the same, you’re all victims and there’s nothing your citizens can do to get universal healthcare. So keep doing it american style and hope someone will shoot all CEOs, that’s your best option I guess.
Biden was also elected, if you recall. No universal healthcare. No raised minimum wage. Wake up.
I’m not american (thankfully). But if I were, and I had a terminal illness, I’d suicide bomb a health insurance headquarters on my way out. Because fuck it…I’m dead anyway.
I’m honestly surprised more old people don’t go out removing problems.
Greedy old fucks are the reason we are in this mess.
Capitalism is the reason we’re in this mess, and it incentivizes greed the same to everybody, regardless of age, race, or creed. Blaming any group besides the oligarchs just serves the oligarchs, and weakens the possibility we can change anything.
They’re too busy pulling the ladder up behind them
it seems to be a generational thing. that generation which is old now isnt radicalized like some of the younger folks will be by that age.
Boomers are a bunch of coddled pussies that had the softest easy mode lives handed to them. They were pandered to as a generation and pulled the ladders up behind them at every step of the way. I hoped that as they died off as a voting block we would finally be able to make real progress as a society,. But the sociopaths they put in power know that they’ll never win on policy, and so fascism and putting an end to democracy is their only way to avoid consequences for their crimes.
True. And then you dont have to worry about facing the cops/legal system cause y’all both be dead. And its better than dealing with an illness where the end result is death. Its on your own terms!
000
The thought crossed my mind more than once when I was struggling for diagnosis as a very sick person and fighting insurance every step of the way.
Cigna or the SSA, though? Decisions, decisions.
You have a terminal diagnosis, regardless of your choice you will die. However if you pull the lever for a brief moment tens thousands of people will be given a better chance to live before the trolley returns to the mainline and the cycle begins again.
Image is almost perfect, it just needs miles upon miles of mangled corpses behind the trolley.
if a company put obscene profits before my treatment and I’m slowly dying in pain and fear then so are the ghouls who decided that money was more important than my treatment.
What have I got to lose?
Prison, I’ll be dead before that happens.
Death sentence? I’ve already got one, thanks.
Damnation in hell? If there is a god and heaven then I’m pretty sure I’d be going up there if I take out a few billionaires. I have nothing to lose, they have everything.The problem is that illnesses like these leave you with no energy. Hard to do much of anything.
Good point! Everyone start making contingency plans now!
I can only assume most of these people have spouses and kids, because that thought goes through my head too, or we’d definitely see more terminal vigilantism.
so did the Wermacht.
That’s why they followed orders, no?
Everyone, even evil people, have kids. Their kids will probably grow up to be evil so what is your point exactly?
The evil people would go after the families of dying vigilantes.
Reeducation camps?
And most people can sympathize with the low level workers at the actual physical location, while the ceo and others at the top aren’t necessarily easy to track and find.
I’d be curious to hear what the ‘acceptable targets’ are from people who casually talk about what they would do if they were in the situation described. I know I would hesitate at every single one. It’s too easy to imagine how someone has been fucked over by our society’s system, and the pain it will cause for them to die. Doesn’t even matter if it’s a rich fuck bastard like the asshole with two kids and an estranged wife that was popped the first time uhc got its teetee slapped.
Correction: they are a cancer on US society. The rest of us have universal healthcare
the us is so insanely corupt I need to leave this shit country
If you have a skilled occupation, it’s easy. Just leave. There are cars, buses and planes that easily can you take to another country. Even if you’re unskilled, you could find a entry job and work your way up from there. It is best to get a visa to live somewhere else first but it can be done retrospectivly and nobody else treats you like a criminal like ICE does. There is nothing stopping you except yourself - I say this as someone who has lived in multiple different countries around the world (not one just next to each other either a la Europe) - many USians say they should leave and they never do. It’ll literally be the best thing you do to make your life better.
Edit: I don’t care about the downvotes. If “aww…but meemah will miss me” is a problem then stay there. I don’t care. You make your own bed. If you actually want a better life, you’d find a way. Don’t bitch about it if you’ve got no desire to actually fix your life.
And I do realise this is a form of privilege. I was brought up in a stable home which allowed me to go my own way. And the privalege to say to my parents, sorry, I’m leaving you to fend for yourself as I need something better for my family. It was hard. They haven’t been prouder of me that I was willing to abandon them. To them, they’d done their job and raised a child willing to fight for what they needed to live. What was better is that I was able to bring them out to join me and they enjoyed the better life too.
It’s not easy. The oversimplification here is absolutely off the wall. You don’t know their situation, so saying “just leave” in the most blasé way possible because you were lucky enough for it to be easy for you is borderline insulting. Family, pets, financial situation, medical situation, and so many other factors play a role in why someone can’t up and leave. It costs a lot to immigrate and move thousands of miles away. Not to mention language barriers.
In my work I meet a lot of immigrants. I have infinite respect and admiration for them, because I realize how hard it is to leave your home country to begin a new life, starting from nothing in a society that isn’t always the most welcoming.
But all of them chose to leave everything because they thought the challenges they faced in their new country were worth it, and their children would have a better future there.
So yeah. It’s hard to emigrate, but if you choose not to, that’s still a choice.
Damn straight. Emigration is hard as, but doable. It’s not the first option, it’s one after you’ve tried or are unwilling to try the other options. And countries change. When I moved to the UK it was on a cultural high (late 90s) and had a great time. I left just after it peaked (2012 Olympics was fantastic and London was doing okay but the rest of the country not so much) in about 2013. I saw it was starting to get worse and it got far far worse since then. Every single person who knows us over there said we made the best choice. We go back every few years and it gets worse every time and we go in summer when it’s actually good there! Others in my family also got out then too to either Canada, Europe, NZ or Australia. Some stayed behind, scared of change but change always happened anyway and now they have to live with it.
Fuckl their “situation”. If they want it, they can do it. Get in a car, grab the dog, cross the border.
Don’t be a fuckwit. If these people really wanted to do it, they could. All their doing is virtue signalling until they do.
“I wanna leave”. “it’s too hard”.
Fuck no it’s not. You’ve got borders. CROSS THEM!!!
Good lord. Island nation folks be sitting here looking at you thinking WTF.
This complete lack of knowledge over immigration processes leads me to believe you’ve never left your own “island nation.”
Transporting a pet to another country means getting them up to date on their vaccinations. Hundreds of dollars for that alone. Countries can euthanize pets at the border.
Not to mention the your car, medical records and current prescriptions, the legal ramifications of overstaying your visa in a foreign country.
Humans cannot simply walk across the border and settle down like birds. It must be nice to have such a simplistic view of the world, but it doesn’t excuse acting like a “fuckwit” to people online, especially if you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Well, we can… in the EU.
Ha! I sent two cats from UK to Australia. Trust me, I know the cost. It’s crazy but you do what you have to, or do as most do and leave them with people you trust. I’ve lived in lots of countries. Some were island nations, some not. I travelled across the borders of all of them - including during an actual war, which thankfully was a land border so drove across. It’s hard, don’t get me wrong. I’ve started from zero on more than one occasion, but if you need it, you find a way. Actual desperation means actually doing something - otherwise you’re just complaining.
Everything is an excuse. If you want it, you find a way.
“Humans cannot simply walk across the border and settle” is the entire reason for MAGA, the current US administration, Brexit, and likely the next UK government, and the rise of the far right in numerous countries. People do, have and will cross borders, legally or otherwise. It’s a risk, yes, but if the other option is to live in poverty, fear or under an authoritarian regime, you do it - or you fight from within. But most of you aren’t willing to do either - bitching and moaning does fuck all. The apathy is pathetic. Enjoy your cage, quietly. If you want to fight, I support that. If you want to try, I support that. If you want to leave, I support that. If you want to sit there, doing nothing and complaining that nothing changes or you can’t do anything, fuck off.
Edit: all of those “problems” are mostly US-immigration problems btw. You’ll get in shit for overstaying a visa but not in the same way as in the US and in many countries you can apply for permanent residency once you’re there, or risk a visa run (where you pop out of the country briefly and then re-enter, resetting your “visa timer”). I talk from experience. Medications are far easier to get in other places, especially life-saving ones as the whole universal healthcare. Even if sometimes you have to pay for it as a non-resident, it’s often cheaper as there’s less price gouging.
You mean… becoming illegal in migrants and risking deportation?
Crossing a road is a risk. Getting out of bed too quickly is a risk. Eating out is a risk. Crossing a border is a risk. Life, as I’m trying to explain, is full of risks.
You can apply for residency when you are already in many places without the risk of an agency like ICE arresting you for trying to do the right thing because many other countries are far more understanding. And free, let’s not forget that either, and it’s mostly propaganda and US-exceptionalism that makes USians think otherwise.
What a boneheaded reply. Don’t be a fuckwit. Cut the ableism, lack of awareness, personal privilege, and national differences. What are people with disabilities supposed to do? People who don’t or can’t drive? People talking care of their infirmed family? People without the thousands of dollars needed to enter a country and live there without a job until they find one that will sponsor them?
According to you, they should take the risk on being sent back to the US poorer than when they started, end up homeless in a strange place, and/or let their family members die alone without support.
I say this as a US citizen trying to get out and having done a TON of digging into what it takes to leave here specifically and go to a European country. There’s more involved than you seem to know. And a boatload of risks.
Not everyone lives where and how you do.
True family would support you leaving them to find a better life. They’d be sad but happy for you. Happens every day all over the world in all families.
Is it ableist, yep probably. And it sucks, but if you have the means, use it. Don’t waste the opportunity. Build the networks, make a life elsewhere and then get your family out to join you. Why do you think families pool their resources to send their fittest, youngest and most economically likely to succeed across borders or on boats to Europe, or walking to the US for example. The “where are the families of this isn’t an invasion” crowd are either stupid or purposely dog whistling when they say this btw.
You realise Americans wanting to go elsewhere still need a work visa and a previously signed up work contract, right?
You don’t need to have work or a visa to move. It’s great if you do but it’s not essential. It depends where you’re going too, and many visa, such as “working holiday visas” are available to apply for online. To every problem there is a solution, if you’re willing to try.
For some people it’s not just so easy to leave. A lot of people have extended families that rely on them
Im guessing that when its my time, its my time. I dont got no funds to get on no life sustaining squat nor do i want to. If its something thats gonna require some pricy maintence drug, i’d much rather peace out
Btw: heres where being child free is an advantage
Yep, they do, and this is where they have to make a tough decision to leave their family and fight for themselves or suck it up and stay. Too many say “I want to leave” but don’t have the balls to do what needs to be done. It’s hard, I’m not arguing that, but if you actually want it, you can do it. All the niceties aren’t handed to you on a platter - there will be sacrifices. Only those with the stomach for it will go further. The others will be sucked into the US’s fascist dictatorship and only have themselves to blame for staying. I’m done with “oh it’s too hard to leave” when it’s not. Oh, your emotions will get hurt. People be sad? Fuck that. Fuck you. If you want a better life, you leave. It’s not hard if you really want it. If you don’t, suck it up. Stop being a pussy and get your shit together and leave.
Your solution is to leave, while some people don’t want to leave either by constraints or stubbornness.
Not leaving doesn’t mean they lack “balls/clit” to handle it. I’m not leaving because I think we can push to make things better.
Leaving is a personal solution, but it only makes things better for the individual. Staying and supporting progressive moves is a solution too, that relies on people coming together.
A lot of people cannot leave for to no education and no money
Yep, being under/uneducated and poor (and sick) is a restriction to life. I wonder if that was the plan all along…
Of course it was btw, the government has been purposely trying to stop people becoming educated, healthy or wealthy for decades as that makes them much easier to control.
If everyone who has the desire to make the USA better leaves, it will make things much worse. Look what happened to Russia or Israel. Except the USA will drag the rest of the world down with it as well. I left, it feels great to escape, but it’s a moral dilemma for me because I’m not actively organizing any more due to the language barrier.
I understand that problem, but also, if the US isn’t the country you want it to be and it’s in it’s “demise” era, let it. Go back when it’s in its “okay, that didn’t work, let’s try a differnet option” era.
Country/Empire status is circular. These things happen as history has shown many many times. Get out now, rebuild later.
Edit: downvote me all you want. You’re the ones suffering the demise whilst I sit here in my castle. Bitch please. You’re just upset you don’t have the cajones to do what needs to be done. Come at me when you actually do or, and this I honestly respect, fight the system from within. Do something to change the current system at the risk to your life, leave, or be a soy boy accepting everything and lose your right to complain. Those are your three options.
They won’t do anything. They’ll just downvote you because mad-face meme.
So many strong-willed downvoters. Their parents must be so proud they raised such an incredible vertebrate.
UK is breaking the sound barrier on it’s way to getting rid of universal healthcare in favour of an American private healthcare.
The American health model has been exported to many countries. And the companies making the money are equally American and European. It’s renewal season and I’m paying out the ass so I’m very agitated by this topic these days
Genuine question…can you outline how the US health model has been exported? What countries do you have in mind?
I’m in Europe and all countries have free health care (or charge a nominal amount - eg, GP visit).
Some countries, like UK and Ireland have a dual model; universal care but also a private insurance model.
I can only speak from experience about Lebanon. Health insurance is completely private. There are government hospitals but those are mostly for the army, and some but not all people get insured through their job or union, either completely or discounted.
There’s something depressingly dystopian about hearing condescending Europeans talk up and down about how good their healthcare system is while I basically pay a sizable big chunk of my income for a health insurance card that has fucking Allianz in big bold letters on the back. Not literal imperialism but the contrast feels pretty abusive honestly
I heard stories from friends about countries in the region only. Health insurance via employer is mandatory in the Gulf countries if I remember correctly, but literally everything is tied back to work visa in their systems. I think Qatar will provide state assisted healthcare in case the employer illegally doesn’t renew insurance? All those countries give their citizens free healthcare but not the guest workers, which is most of the population in most of these places.
I’m assuming the very expensive private system is not exclusive to the US (which is built around private sector worship) and Lebanon (a feudal free-for-all oligarchy since time immemorial). I think health insurance is a big industry in Southeast Asia and urban west Africa as well? The world is more than just EU+US+friends
Same thing happens in Canada but it’s the government denying the coverage.
Can you give me an example of a medically necessary coverage that is denied by the government?
If you’ve been undergoing cancer treatment for 7 years and you still have cancer then funding will be taken away because it’s seen as not effective even if it’s stopping progression.
Then you get a long legal battle around it while your treatment is on hold.
So the example would be the above image.
That’s a pretty vague example, but it seems like if the cancer treatment has been going on for 7 years and you still have cancer then they’re correct in saying it’s not effective.
I have a slow-growing inoperable brain tumor. If they cut it out I’d die. I’ve done chemo and radiation, but that was to slow the growth. I need an MRI every 6 months because, if it begins to progress again, I have to go through the same treatment all over again. With this plan, I can live to a relatively normal-ish life expectancy.
What I had done is effective, and the best possible outcome. So should I be denied ongoing care and left to die? You’re ignorant about healthcare situations and talking out of your ass.
You should be given the treatment that the majority of the medical community deems is necessary for your condition.
Yes, but that’s not what you said:
if the cancer treatment has been going on for 7 years and you still have cancer then they’re correct in saying it’s not effective.
Many cancers are chronic conditions which have to be managed. Like other conditions, still “having it” does not mean the treatment was ineffective. No medical practice is going to try to treat cancer knowing that a treatment would be ineffective. They seek to do it for a very good reason and to suggest otherwise means the government or insurer is choosing their own money over a person’s life.
I wasn’t saying the insurance company was wrong. I was just saying it happens in countries with public healthcare.
What, that people are denied ineffective health care? I should hope so.
Unless you can provide a real example this is just conjecture.
I don’t really know how I can provide a “person I know with cancer” example.
Even my own non-cancer treatments that get denied I don’t have a way to just show you it.
Cancer diverts the body’s resources to its own growth, disproportionally to its contribution (not that it has any), and rather than doing this by direct and explicit violence like proper parasites it uses the body’s own regulatory mechanisms to trick it into restructuring itself to give away its resources.
The main difference is that cancer is not sentient - let alone sapient - and thus incapable of holding moral accountability.
Wake the fuck up, Samurai.
Do a Luigi.
He didn’t kill anyone.
Rapists and child molesters don’t kill anyone either.
I think he’s saying Luigi Mangione is innocent. Not Brian Thompson, or whatever that fucker’s name was
Well there was a board meeting going on at that Hotel…
Oh ffs.
Irrespective of the morality of Luigi’s (alleged) actions (and let me emphasize here: killing people is wrong, even when the people are health care CEOs) he didn’t do shit to change the system. He killed one guy. He inspired some memes. He got a bunch of CEOs to increase their personal security. Big fucking deal.
CEOs are fungible. Luigi killed one. His corporation replaced him, just like a broken part in a machine. Nothing changed and the world moved on.
The broken health care industry will be fixed - if it’s ever fixed - by government action. We need single payer. We need universal taxpayer-funded health care for all. And we’re not going to get that by shooting CEOs.
Luigi caused a wave of insurance companies to pause killing people for profit for a moment.
Nothing else has ever come close so far.
“Nothing changed.”
Killing Brian Thompson had a real, if temporary, effect. They denied fewer claims.
And the shooting of that CEO made health insurance panic to the point that they approved almost every request for care for the first time ever.
There are literally thousands, if not tens of thousands, that are alive today, thanks to the industries panic response to that shooting leading to mass approvals.
Single Payer/Medicare for all is the ideal, but until we get there… we know of a way to make the system approve necessary care. and save lives
Ah, so, do many Luigis!
Insurance companies pay exorbitant amounts of money to tell politicians that single payer insurance isn’t a feasible option.
Insurance companies lose a lot of money when they have to hire a new CEO because the other one died.
For several months after the UHC CEO was shot, cases were denied significantly less often and were handled much faster than usual. This cost the insurance companies money too.
In other words, if you’d like your vote for single-payer insurance to ever be heard, you have to quit down the really loud insurance companies and the only way to do that is to burn their pockets.
If 1 Luigi doesn’t work, 10 might do the job. Gotta throw enough at it for change to be permanent
let me emphasize here: killing people is wrong, even when the people are health care CEOs
Hard disagree. It’s wrong EXCEPT for them and others in their club. In their cases it is a moral imperative that all of us should be called to fulfill by our basic humanity.
If we oppose terrorist acts, it is only because individual revenge does not satisfy us. The account we have to settle with the capitalist system is too great to be presented to some functionary called a minister. To learn to see all the crimes against humanity, all the indignities to which the human body and spirit are subjected, as the twisted outgrowths and expressions of the existing social system, in order to direct all our energies into a collective struggle against this system—that is the direction in which the burning desire for revenge can find its highest moral satisfaction.
You don’t know that we won’t get universal health care by shooting the CEOs of health care companies.
This is just virtue signaling for capitalism and it’s fucking lame.
but we haven’t tried yet
One healthcare CEO is dead. UHC promptly replaces him and the system goes on as usual.
This is what Luigi did not know, it is near impossible to go after a corporation because its a machine with legal personhood!
Kill enough UH CEOs and nobody will want to be one.
I like how your response was sensible but got downvoted so much lol Every one calls for a Luigi but no one wants be a Luigi
And frankly, a wave of Luigis would be actively harmful to the cause of fixing US health care. We had a wave of “propaganda of the deed” anarchist assassins and bombers in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Their “direct action” against members of European royalty discredited their cause in the public eye, and tainted not only them but peaceful anarchist movements beside them.
And then an anarchist shot the wrong person and started World War I, showing that propaganda of the deed may not be able to make the world better, but it sure as hell can make it worse.
