The Russians appear willing to make concessions. This is a skillful ploy to put us off our guard.
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I hope this is just preparation for a victory lap, maybe even just mocking them now because a lot of (pro-Russia) analysts already came to a conclusion the current borders are far from sufficient. Likewise it is almost impossible to conceive Ukraine will cede unoccupied territory so again, I’m not sure what he is trying to do here other than to take a piss.
The pre-war goals, the most important being NATO neutrality? You’d be a damn fool to believe this will be enforceable without Russian troops sitting within 15km of Kiev for the rest of eternity or something like that.
I hope this is just preparation for a victory lap
Nothing about this shit-show deserves a victory lap. It was the bloodiest and most pointless mass immolation of life and livelihood since Iraq. At the absolute best, Russians get to claim a charnel house littered with depleted uranium. More likely, they’ll be doing anti-insurgency across the country for decades, while the rest of Europe grows increasingly fascist and racist towards Slavs.
I’m not sure what he is trying to do here other than to take a piss
All wars are just a prelude to diplomacy. I think Putin is putting out interest now so he looks better on the international stage, before Biden loses the White House and Republicans come to the settlement table ready to kick this under the rug so they can pivot back to China.
The pre-war goals, the most important being NATO neutrality?
NATO gets to come out of this with more money, more members, and a renewed mandate to battle its age-old nemesis. I think NATO general staff might be the ONLY folks coming out of this for the best. Maybe with the exception of the Chinese, who have finally broken through the old Sino-Soviet split and as senior partners to boot.
You’d be a damn fool to believe this will be enforceable without Russian troops sitting within 15km of Kiev for the rest of eternity or something like that.
I don’t know how many Ukrainians are left standing to do the next Pickett’s Charge into Russian artillery fire. And given how easily Russian artillery has demolished critical infrastructure in and around Kiev, I hardly think they need to be west of Brovary to pose a threat.
The enforcement comes from Russian artillery placements. Donetsk will be at least as secure as Pyongyang.
It was the bloodiest and most pointless mass immolation of life and livelihood since Iraq
That’s crazy, how was this more pointless than Libya, Donbas, Afghanistan, Armenia, or Palestine? More bloody sure, but Russia’s reasons for entering are justifiable for national security
Don’t tell me that Russia thought getting sanctioned by the rest of the entire world and entering a proxy war in a massive country was somehow expected to be a net economic gain like everything the West has done since Iraq
That’s crazy, how was this more pointless than Libya, Donbas, Afghanistan, Armenia, or Palestine?
Strictly by volume. I don’t believe any of those reached the scale of the Russia Ukraine war in the comparatively brief time period.
More likely, they’ll be doing anti-insurgency across the country for decades, while the rest of Europe grows increasingly fascist and racist towards Slavs.
Not sure what your point here is, they were dealing with the Ukrainian nazis shelling donbass for almost a decade already, at least now there is a path towards some sort of normalcy while before there wasn’t? Like I’m not sure your point here this is very much a big victory for the Russian ethnic in eastern Ukraine.
You also don’t seem to realize Russian popular sentiment is already very invested into the outcome of this war. It is why Putin can’t be too soft, its why he was criticized when the Azov prisoners were exchanged even by regular right wing/nationalists. War support in Russia is not just a leftist cause and Russia will take pride in their “victory”.
Of course that doesn’t discount the human cost at all, but as I said the human cost was already there counted in the amount of missiles and shells hitting Donest city every day before the war.
The rest of EU? Everything is contingent on US support, nobody else has an army nor an economy to wage war and while they may be racist towards Slavs this is nothing but a mere continuation of the cold war.
But even more so Europe was always as much fighting among themselves as with outsiders, the EU neoliberal project is barely a generation old and the post-WW2 “normalcy” came at the cost of Germans bombing French and English/vice-versa to hell. Of course the capitalists on both sides were spared but my point is such “unity” is fickle at best historicaly it doesn’t take much for European countries to go to war against each other. Also remember how Spain/Greece/Italy got fucked in 2008 by German backed EU economic policies?
The same thing will keep happening. The racism against non-whites is barely a stop gap measure, EU fascism will turn inwards first before worrying about geopolitical issues. Anyway its not like said Italian or French fascist got any military power to do anything without US help anyway. Best they can do is continue to persecute non-whites/the poor at home.
they were dealing with the Ukrainian nazis shelling donbass for almost a decade already
The scale of conflict has escalated significantly since then. Casualties are in the hundreds of thousands.
You also don’t seem to realize Russian popular sentiment is already very invested into the outcome of this war.
American popular sentiment was very invested in the outcome of the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars two years into those conflicts. I don’t think that works in their favor. On the contrary, they’re exposed to a backlash if they do any kind of withdrawal or suffer another nasty run of casualties or tie the conflict back to a new economic downturn.
Everything is contingent on US support, nobody else has an army nor an economy to wage war and while they may be racist towards Slavs this is nothing but a mere continuation of the cold war.
For the time being. But a big role of the Bush Era State Department and beyond has been prodding EU/Middle Eastern states to arm up and get into these territorial fights. Turning European and Arab allies (and more recently Pacific states) into armed outgrowths of the US-based MIC. As fascist movements throughout Central Europe build up in popularity, and as states ramp up the size and scope of their domestic police forces, its easy to see conflict accelerate into border clashes and then open war.
That’s exactly what happened in Ukraine between 2006 and 2021. First, police forces ramped up. Then the conflict flared up into a decade long civil war. Finally, as the western bloc gained territory in Donetsk and the fighting spilled over the border, the conflict went international.
Why would this not happen in Poland or Hungary or Italy or Germany? Turkey is already in the thick of it and could easily be the next domino to fall. Syria almost tipped into civil war and international conflict thanks to US interventions. There’s nothing magical about these Western states that would prevent pogroms against Africans, Arabs, Slavs, and other Asian cohorts (particularly the Chinese) that would in turn flare up into wholesale street fighting and eventual interstate conflicts.
The same thing will keep happening.
I absolutely agree. But I don’t think the Russia-Urkaine war backstopped any of it. I only see it as the latest in a string of border classes and ethnic purges that Europeans will be conducting for the next century.
EU fascism will turn inwards first before worrying about geopolitical issues
Fascism never just stops inside the borders of a state. As soon as refugees start fleeing the state and businesses suffer and neighboring territories see attacks on their ex-pats as an attack on themselves, the conflict grows in scope.
Russia-Ukraine is the model for the future.
I haven’t finished thinking about it, but the idea of land redistribution to veterans as a way to stabilize the initial occupation of the western ukraine is interesting if nothing else.
I wouldn’t have predicted it but Russia somehow did not take the L in this war, not that the eort of Russian collapse the west hoped for was ever feasible. I will say Hamas getting Ukraine thrown off the US military aid number one priority position was a sweet bonus for Russia. And it also shows the logistical issues in maintaining an empire. You can’t cover the globe despite how insane you might be. Power to the Houthis
Hasn’t this been Russia’s position the entire time? I’ve only ever seen them actively trying to have peace negotiations over the past decade, much to the chagrin and mockery of Ukraine and the West who declare it either SUBTERFUGE or WEAKNESS.
This headline in a western news outlet is, to me, more of an indicator to me that the West is now bored with this proxy war, wants to end it and is looking to save face.
Russia is screwed either way.
With China reconciling with the US after realizing that Russia’s tiny market simply could not absorb the loss of export to the US, it is clear that Russia will get the short end of the stick moving forward as China refuses to decouple from the US. Together with the demise of BRICS, with India pulling away and Argentina going its own way, Putin knows that Russia has to make concessions now or they will get even shittier deal if they wait longer.
It is fair to say that Russia and China have failed to bring down the empire. The world simply isn’t ready for it yet.
What? Where the fuck did you get the idea that China wants to decouple from the US? Or from anyone for that matter?
China hasn’t been involved in any of this shit. Bring down the empire? China doesn’t have to bring down the empire, it’s in decline and it’s never going to stop that decline. China just simply has to exist and it will rise to the top without an unprecedented intervention that the west is simply incapable of performing. America is already on the path the British empire was and will not reverse that.
I don’t know where you’ve gotten these ideas from but they’re just flat out wrong.
I’ve only been lurking and reading, not really speaking up about it but that’s kinda the trend I notice with their posts. A lot of them just come off as “USA stronk and Biden 5000 IQ 5-D Chess strategic mastermind, USA set to eviscerate and humiliate China and set in
thousandinfinite year reich. China weak, ineffective and pathetic and hopeless, USA only makes it look like China has a chance out of pity.” That’s not actually what they’re saying of course, but I’m just exaggerating for the reason stated below:It’s actually seriously getting on my nerves.
Patriots are in control.
It really is instructive how much liberal messaging has become bluMAGAified.
That’s not what I’m saying and I’m sorry if it came across that way to you.
I know a lot of people here can’t wait to see the US empire eating shit. Indeed, I have often said that China and Russia were on their way of checkmating the US empire back in 2022, but for whatever reasons they stopped doing what they were doing and so much wasted opportunities this year allowed the global hegemon to breathe and regain its strengths.
Once you start to see the high level play of the US imperialists, it gets incredibly scary. Too many people see a senile president, a fumbling military operation and think the empire is crumbling into its own demise, but the empire’s spider web is cast far wider and deeper, and its bite far more venomous than most are seeing right now. Blink and you’ll miss it.
China reconciling with the US after realizing that Russia’s tiny market simply could not absorb the loss of export to the US
What are your trying to say here? It reads like you’re claiming that China tried to stop exporting to the USA (when?) and didn’t know that Russia was a smaller economy than the USA (why?) and then found it out.
Your first comment is wrong from beginning to end and when questioned about it you retreat into vague language about “high level play” and spider webs.
What loss of export to the US?
(wrote that before reading the rest of the comment; it has too many mistakes to easily list; wrong from beginning to end really)
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What is there to talk about? When Russia GTFO of Ukraine the war is over.
You must be new here
Like a stubborn child trying to bash their head through a wall.
Do it again! You’re almost through!
And what should be done with the majority Russian areas who legally can’t speak their language and who have artillery shells blasted into their cities by the Azov Batallion?
Why are liberals so excited to have a genocide in the Donbas?
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When are you going to grow up and join the real world? Repeating this shit over and over again doesn’t make it any less realistic, bordering on complete and total fantasy.
What you are actually saying when you say this is that you are happy to see tens of thousands of people die for dumbass lines on a map, because you care about dumbass lines on a map and the states more than human beings. Your priorities lie in nationalism, not people’s lives. I’d go so far as to call it ultra-nationalism given the level of delusion you people are now stooping to in order to throw yet more bodies into the grinder.
This all could have ended before Boris put a stop to negotiations. And it would have ended with exactly the same outcome that we’re going to get now, except with hundreds of thousands fewer deaths that you lot were happy to see.
And it would have ended with exactly the same outcome that we’re going to get now
Not really. Ukraine would have been able to retain the Donbas and they wouldn’t be living in a wrecked nation with a trillion dollars in destroyed infrastructure. Russia was basically only asking they stop attacking the Donbas, recognize their rights, and Russia would retain Crimea.
You either have brain of a small child, or you have the reasoning skills of a chimp.
Then go volunteer. They need bodies.
Interesting how brave reddit warriors ready to join the international brigades suddenly went silent after they got rekt by missiles lmao.
Brother that’s not going to happen. Russia is taking a big fat 21st century shit on Ukraine right now.
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Is the world ready to stfu out of iraq or west bank?
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But I was told Obama got us out of there, CNN said so!
Lol he won’t respond to this
So if Russia installs a new government in Ukraine and that new government allowed the Russian army to be there, would that be ok?
The Iraqi government the U.S. installed when they invaded in the first place?
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The previous regime which we also installed
The previous government had running infrastructure, hospitals, electricity, clean water, etc. before the American regime bombed them and plunged the region into chaos so as to install puppet governments that allowed the U.S regime to pillage their resources and inflate the stock portfolios of the war criminals that run the American regime.
Zero justification for supporting the actions of the American terrorist regime.
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praising of a genocidal dictator
um nobody here is praising Joe Biden
You’re really conflating seething hatred for America destroying a country with praise for Saddam Hussein? You reactionaries really can’t see in anything beyond binary terms, can you?
Saddam was fucking atrocious, but Iraq had working infrastructure under him (and his rise to power was aided by the US, so he was another pawn)
They had that torn apart courtesy of America and are only just building back
Hey quick question, what’s worse: opposing the US empire, or being the US empire and giving Saddam Hussein chemical weapons to attack Iran?
What the fuck? There isn’t a single word of praise for any thing or anyone in that comment are you this fucking delusional???
Now the praising of a genocidal
What your feelings on the state of Israel?
“oh shid oh fuck I wandered outside my echo chamber oh shiiiiiiiii”
I’m with you. It’s not fair to make judgments based on the material reality of people’s lives. You clearly said the word dictator, which means bad guy from an exotic locale. You won the argument. What are all these commies talking about?
The Iraq war and the aftermath probably killed more Iraqis than Saddam’s entire reign.
Bitch, you’re the one saying the genocidal slaughter and immiseration of millions of Iraqis is a good thing.
Fucking libs, man. Give them the slightest push against their preconceived notions and they immediately start slinging shit instead of relating to the arguments at hand.
“Hey here’s some facts about how life was measurably better before we bombed the shit out of Iraq”.
“Whatever you love Saddam”.You would have supported the Iraq war. You would have supported the Vietnam war. You would have supported the Kent state shootings. You would have eagerly reported local communists during the red scare.
Please acquire some critical thinking skills you cretin
Iraq’s power grid took until 2008 to return to the capacity it could generate prior to the first Gulf War over a decade and a half prior where the US needlessly destroyed their power grid, and it still can’t meet demand in the summer
It has depleted uranium in it’s groundwater from American munitions
It had ISIS/ISIL attack it
Millions were displaced, hundreds of thousands were killed, and it got privatized into oblivion by IMF/World bank loans with greedy contractors like Halliburton licking their chops
I’m pretty sure it is much worse then it was pre American involvement
There’s plenty of shitty government around the world, including a bunch the US actively supports. It doesn’t give the US the right to kick the door down and subject the people there to more instability and violence to further their geopolitical goals under the guise of “humanitarianism”.
The yank has an opinion on what constitutes democracy
So if Russia installs a regime better than the current one, their invasion is ok then?
Also lol at not knowing the USA installed the Iraqi government.
Dogbrain
Is the American army allowed to be in Syria by the Syrian government too?
Is John allowed to eat Tom’s lunch?
Fun, but can we stay on topic?
You claim to want to stay on topic, but bring up people like “Tom” and “John”. Curious!
(No well guy emoji? Wtf?)
Gah, I never get the keyword right.
And lunch
Die Reddit brained genocide fan
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China’s life expectancy is higher than America’s, and is still rising while ours fàlls.
Fucking lol if you think China is a bad place to live
I wish I could live in China, have you seen their infrastructure? Have you seen their cities? Have you seen what they invest in?
The topic is foreign interventions, Syria is about as relevant to that topic as you can get. You know this, you are intentionally avoiding engaging with his question cuz you know you don’t have an answer that won’t come off as a massive fucking stretch.
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So illegal wars of aggression are ok?
A topic completely unrelated to foreign interventions, then?
I’m sorry you think Iraq was worse off before the US and allies came in and murdered 2million people? Are you real?
You are a genuine monster.
I wonder how Saddam got into power in the first place
Which they installed?
Like compare and contrast three events:
Maidan - january 6 in usa
Syrian civil war - ukraine civil war
Invasion of ukraine - invasion of sector gaza
Do the internal logic of events is similar? Which ones gets sanctioned, and which ones gets ignored?
oppa gangnam style
The American army is allowed to be there by the Iraqi government?
That is such a lie
How’d that government get in power?
The Iraqi government literally voted to have America withdraw and was ignored
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/1/5/iraqi-parliament-calls-for-expulsion-of-foreign-troops
lol
Liberals are constantly out of date on the most basic of information if it’s anything to outside of american borders. By literal years.
The We’re So Back to It’s Joever pipeline
Mr. Putaine you’re hashtag CANCELED
any day now…
I wouldn’t have predicted it but Russia somehow did not take the L in this war. I kinda do but it’s too long to explain, except that they were lucky Hamas got Ukraine thrown off the priority list.
