Here, I’ll give up all means of production that I personally own and aren’t for personal use.
Done.
(Ok I’m not giving up my retirement account until we have an effective pension system because I’m not an idiot, but other than that done)
I’m scared for our society, nobody willing to actually educate themselves outside of social media
Side note: Google is NOT your friend.
shoulda said DUCKDUCK
They’re not really your friend either, just the enemy of your enemy for now.
the story of tech
Yeah, that sentence aged like milk
Capitalism is LITERALLY forcing other people to give away all of their belongings.
In capitalism, you just don’t have any remaining belongings to give away.
Capitalism is LITERALLY forcing other people to give away all of their belongings
can you explain this some? im not very knowledgeable about economic systems
I’m guessing they mean, that under capitalism, most of your basic needs require money to access, so if you run out of money you have to sell your belongings in order to survive.
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Ask your average blue collar Republican voter what they hate about socialism and they will perfectly describe capitalism
The average socialist describes socialism as a liberal, democratic, capitalist center left government.
People would lose their shit if the government started going after private ownership.
Wait, wait… Jesus Christ literally said that. No, seriously. It was something like, “if you want to follow me, surrender your Earthly possessions” and “A thief cannot rob your ephemeral wealth, unlike stuff in your house.” Paraphrased poorly, but that’s the gist of it.
That’s what I was thinking. She didn’t describe socialism, she described christinism. She probably hates it just the same.
Google’s my third biggest enemy.
Oh! Are the enemies sized in terms of their actual side? Or relative to your hate?
Like, are enemies #1 and #2 the Moon and the Sun or something? Or is #1 a person and your disdain is just larger for them?
Just by volume. Mass doesn’t come into the picture at all.
I mean the proof is in the pudding.
We can all see how the conservative “pull yourself up by your boostraps trickle down” ideology is (isn’t) working for the majority of our society, including the vast majority of conservatives.
I’m not some tree hugging ultra-lib. But the bottom line is capitalism simply isn’t sustainable. It causes rampant pollution and an ever-widening wealth gap between the haves and have nots. We haven’t even been utilizing capitalism that long in the big picture and it’s already absolutely catastrophic for our environment. It’s just not sustainable. It needs to be HEAVILY regulated if it keeps existing at all. And one thing I know for absolute certain is you get the opposite of regulation when you hire conservatives/regressives.
That isn’t what socialism is, but it is however exactly what Jesus told people to do. And yet she - a Christian - seems to hold the idea in contempt. Curious.
I don’t love religion, but many churches do make some attempt to help the poor in the areas where they run.
There are a lot of churches that are closer to a mafia with intent and fees.
long as you obey
that’s not charity, that’s extortion
You don’t have to obey, they just make you pay more… to do the right thing… you know, grease god’s palms
“Well if you hate Hitler’s genocide, we shouldn’t all have to collectively do something about it. Buy your own gun, get yourself to Germany, and start fighting Nazis yourself!”
Well that is just it, the wealthy of the US were totally on board with the Nazi. Industrialists like Ford help to bankroll the Nazi Empire by building factories and saying they could keep all the profits. Not to mention IBM developing the number system for the tattoos on Jewish prisoners and helping with the logistics of sending them to the death camps
Hitler didn’t even want to kill the Jews at first, he wanted to exile them and sent envoys to see if other countries would take them. When the wealthy of the US found out they went and lobbied against this and stroked more anti-jewish sentiment in Europe to ensure the final solution would happen. Hell, even Hitler said he based the Holocaust after the Native American genocide the US committed.
US was fully onboard with eugenics leading up to WWII. There’s a whole lotta retconning going on.
Not the least of it is that US were the heroes in WWII. We were “neutral” until the thing was half through, and even then barely even fought the Germans. History props America up, because one of our biggest exports is “history”…but we’re the third-stringers who soaked up the glory when we finished the game 30 points up…while we were brought in with a couple minutes left and up by 50.
Us milennials are the worst of it. We got taught by boomer history teachers who heard endless exaggerated war stories from their dads and uncles and had that to feed their already stubborn attitudes. Or worse, Vietnam vets.
For real, the US is the source of the fascism which pisses me off when people say the US stopped the fascists. They are the fucking fascist and Italy and Germany were offshoots from the US.
If the US citizens hadn’t invested the time and money in the European Axis then perhaps WWII would have never happened. That is speculative, of course, but it really feels the US is responsible especially after walking away from governance in the aftermath of WWI. I digress though.
You are absolutely correct as the Soviet Union did all the heavy lifting taking on around 80 percent of the Nazi forces. It was definitely the undoing of Germany when they attacked Russia, but if they hadn’t we may be living in a far worse world for minorities than we have now. Unfortunately, it feels like thanks to the US spreading fascism around the world we are heading there anyways.
Socialism to a conservative: anything that benefits people I don’t like or don’t care about, with extra scrutiny when it’s POC; Capitalism to a conservative: Dammit I’m special and precious and nothing at all like the other 8 billion souls god saw fit to populate the earth with because I ✓ work ✓ go to church ✓ follow Fox News ✓ am white
“Google is your friend.”
It might be her friend but it isn’t ours!
Google is a private entity known for problematic practices and associations.
This being said: a decade of underfunded education and propaganda-driven social media bubbles made many people unbelievably sociopathic in their worldview.
Many people do give some of their money or belongings to those less fortunate already. It’s called charity. Socialists want to create a world where charity isn’t necessary.
I think of it where charity is not optional. Seriously though there would be charities but for more niched things. Not to make sure vets (who get more healthcare than most of the country) get healthcare or children get healthcare. I swear the charity commercials from when I was a kid about children in africa are now about children in the us.
vets (who get more healthcare than most of the country)
You may be overestimating the quality of VA hospitals.
ETA: Just to clarify, I’m not trying to negate their point. I’m just mentioning that veteran healthcare isn’t actually all that great. There’s a good reason so many vets end up crazy and homeless in the US.
Literally any healthcare>>>No healthcare
There were times in my life that I would not go to the hospital unless I was literally dying for fear of the costs. A ton of people in the US are like that, and imagine how many ignore weird pains or symptoms that then progress into serious conditions that could’ve been treated if they’d have gotten checked out earlier.
This is one of the major contributing factors to the reduced cost for socialized healthcare: it is a lot less expensive to catch things early than to treat them later.
Veterans generally rate their VA provided healthcare higher than civilians rate their civilian healthcare in the US. The whole myth that the VA is significantly worse than the regular system is just that; a myth. Outcomes and patient satisfaction trend higher in VA hospitals.
My take from what I’ve been told is it’s great as long as you can stay healthy enough to make it through the bureaucratic crap. With VA hospitals, you get to take all the fun and games of a regular hospital admin and throw in a bunch of government red tape.
Ohhh, veterans.
I thought you had specific healthcare for veterinarians and I thought that was very niche
They would go to the VVA: Veterans Veterinarians Association
Not to be confused with the Veterinarian Veterans Association
Okay I gotta good giggle out of that. I imagined, okay now I’m going to use this animal painkiller and suture myself up!
you may be underestimating nothing.
Just to clarify I do agree with the point you were making. I was just commenting on the fact that veteran healthcare in the US isn’t actually that great, and not as easily accessible as some think it is.
oh I get it but honestly I have seen it in action and for a veteran living in a major area it seems light years above typical. Most things I hear come down to long term care facilities, which are bad for ones the poor end up in if not worse, and people living in the stix. Which again the poor there just are getting nothing. I was in no way trying to say what they get is great just that it is additional to what the non veteran gets. I see a lot of veteran and first responder thing (another profession with generally better benefits than average) and talking about wounds but I tell you its better to be shot as a first responder or veteran than as a teacher although even they tend to at least have benefits. Its real bad if you make your money in the gig economy.
They also want to do that at gunpoint.
Minor detail you forgot to mention.
Capitalism is enforced at gunpoint. Can we condemn that, too?
You mean like when you can’t loot other people’s shit?
What? No, I meant like when people said they didn’t want to work 12 hours a day 6 days a week anymore, and then the capitalists had the police shoot them.
I mean, that certainly wasn’t nice, but unions are an accepted part of “capitalism” now.
Describing murder and decade long imprisonment as “nice” is underselling it.
Also, “accepted” is stretching it. Union busting, suppression, and capture, are all common.
Yeah, because no war has ever been fought to bring capitalism anywhere. Ever. Not even one little time.
They don’t want that. They just understand that the capitalists will literally kill them and they have to be prepared for that. This is not speculation, it’s historically accurate
No, socialism doesn’t work unless you force people into it. Socialism can theoretically be voluntary inside a capitalist system. No one forbids you to form a collective. Except no one joins such collectives except lazy rejects and people wanting free shit. There is a real reason hippie commune attempts have all fallen apart.
Capitalists will only kill you if you’re trying to take their shit by force, which is entirely reasonable.
What are you talking about? Capitalists literally hire death squads and murder people all over the world to protect their profits from exploiting countries that their host nations invaded and colonized
There is a real reason hippie commune attempts have all fallen apart.
Ignoring the extreme scenario of hippie communes, things like “we want paid sick time”, “we don’t want to work more than 8 hours a day”, and “we want to be paid in real money not company scrip” are pretty reasonable demands. All of that was met with violence by the capitalists. The police and sometimes army used violence, and then the leaders that survived were often jailed. So it’s not like capitalism just naturally is stable. It’s held in place by force.
Capitalists will only kill you if you’re trying to take their shit by force, which is entirely reasonable.
Why is it their stuff?
Do you genuinely believe capitalism has not killed or caused the killing of numerous individuals?
Strawman alert.
Coward alert.
Overthrowing the current order at gunpoint is completely ethically justified, capitalism is fundamentally and irredeemably evil and anyone who doesn’t see that is too fucking stupid to safely walk and chew at the same time
What in the actual fuck are you talking about?
Read other replies to my comment to find out. Mind the vote score, too. The vicious savages aren’t hiding.
Crying about “viscious savages” because people took away your internet points just makes you sound like a pampered little bitch.
I couldn’t care less about my points. Look at the upvotes on the ones proposing murder.
Here is my gun, its written down you moron.
Democratic socialists do not want to impose socialism on people through violent force.
They also dont want socialism. They want reform just like centrists.
Not one DSA candidate has called for the means of production to be in the hands of the workers.
Not one has said we should get rid of capitalists.
Not one has said we should get rid of for profit banks and insurance.
They do talk about single payer healthcare but that is just a social program and not socialism.
Its all reform unless we(the workers)seize the means of production and I havent heard one peep about that from the DSA.
So, no, the DSA aren’t socialists at all, they are at best reformists.
Many members of DSA would like to see a significant proliferation of worker owned co-ops.
I just wish this was talked about more. I know AOC has mentioned co-ops before, but we’re in need of proper legislation, and a legal framework, to support and recognize them. For the purpose of gaining access to capital (via bank loans) if nothing else. There are almost no drawbacks, and so many upsides. Aside from needing to learn how to actually work with other people, they’re legitimately better in basically every way to traditional businesses.
I’m not even super into the DSA, but this is just incorrect. Plenty of folks in the DSA talk about genuine worker democracy. Look at the different tendencies within the DSA rather than the individual candidates. The DSA’s rank and file is much further to the left than AOC and Mamdani, and IMO this is a good thing because that’s how you build actual socialist mass movements, rather than Bernie Sanders 2.0
Oh, I see the issue. You’re one of those tankies who equates authoritarianism with socialism.
One of those people who is tired of losing and isn’t completely historically and politically illiterate
You want a lot of things and have no plan to get there useless populist
Good to see the idiots on twitter still arguing like children
“It’s only real democracy when I like the outcome, otherwise its populism” - false democracy advocates
Ah, the classic “I’m a narcissist so I can only see that other people want things only for themselves” view. Most who are socialists want it so everyone can have their basic needs met, not because they themselves want free things. It’s about caring for others, which you clearly are unable to comprehend.
Maybe fuck off back there with your childish “arguments”?
How about you forego social security and Medicare if you hate socialism so much? No? Thats what I thought.
But the argument is with that they will say but I paid into it. Which is even stupider because well what about taxes. So there’s no argument they just are mad at people because they bought into something and are too bitter what they bought into was bullshit.
I know :/ i just hate hearing all these dumb arguments on the internet lol.
And roads, fire and police services whenever you need those too
