He wasn’t even running, Hillary was. He just loves fucking over marginalized groups that much
The worst part is it’s not just liberals that do this. Sometimes it’s leftists or even minorites trying to be “one of the good ones”
Fuck. Normal.
Normal got us global warming, data centers and assholes who open-mouth cough during a pandemic.
Yes. I also remember when he could have codified Roe v Wade and even promised to do so but didn’t.
I remember when he promised “change” and then there was no change.
The first hint of Obama’s snakelike nature came early, when he walked back a pro gay marriage statement he had made as a state senator.
Hell, under his watch we only got gay marriage because the unelected Supreme Court decided it was a privacy issue, not because he fought for it.
Sometimes it’s leftists or even minorites trying to be “one of the good ones”
Yeah at one point i’ve had a run-in with a trans woman on lemmygrad who was really fucking adament that we should just concede the sports ban issue because it affects such a small part of the community (which is precisely why the GOP has made it their core anti-trans talking point, you can wage this war on the back of literally 5 college students and a couple hundred trans girls that are already out in highschool, but it has implications that directly affect every single trans person out there). Probably not surprising that she also gave off the biggest transmed vibes you can imagine and also vagueposted about what a community elder with a long history of activism she was, which probably meant “i’ve been out for 5 years and have been to three corporate pride marches in the 2nd year of that”.
Regarding Obama, he’s always the guy in the Dems who does the disciplining. When Obama talks to you, it means the DNC thinks you’ve overstepped your boundaries and Daddy Tan Suit is kindly reminding you what the party line is.
People really need to understand that the sports ban issue is rooted in the same ideology as putting trans women into mens prisons.
Or the bathroom issue, or anything that boils down to treating trans and inter people as a gender randomly and coercively assigned at birth.
And it’s not even just a trans issue. The people who boost it are the same people who want to eliminate Title IX and nuke all women’s sports. Plus there’s the fact that enforcing it inevitably leads to violating the privacy of every single girl who completes. I wish more women understood how this stuff is connected - at the Olympic level, every major “trans controversy” has resulted in a cis woman getting harmed.
it’s also rooted in the same ideology as segregation, let them ban trans people from spots today and the chuds could be pushing to bing back the clolored league tomorrow
Obama has been proud of the fact he’s an absolute fraud. Like I give him ten years until he goes the way of Muskrat.
Real socialism has never been triedReal not-being-a-republicanism has never been tried!obama crashout arc
Melting down at people for not liking his movies
It is exactly how ‘wedge issues’ wedge their way into larger issues.
Speaking of Obama fuckery, anyone remember the NBA strike that was making some real headway? Then he popped his head up from whatever consulting gig he was doing to weigh in on the side of the team owners and helped crush it?
I’m actually totally in favor of pragmatism, but there is a line, and things like “pragmatic genocide” are well past that line. So are things like “pragmatic systemic human rights erasure” which is what all of the anti trans “wait your turn” rehtoric is.
Pragmatism is making small compromises now for bigger payoffs later, not “let’s abuse and erase entire swathes of the global population”
I’ve had enough of compromising with people that harm me the first chance they get
This is the problem with the American political discourse, the weasels have twisted and conflated “pragmatism” into a euphemism for “genuflect to the most horrible people in the room.” Pragmatism just means, do the best thing given the circumstances. Making overtures to people who will never budge an inch isn’t pragmatic, it’s dogmatic. It’s, these are the holy political methods handed down from the elders, they work because
, any argument to the contrary must be unreasonable.And it’s not like it even helps them.
Never before have I seen a republican or anyone point to some dems and say “well, these dems aren’t so bad after all.” Not like you hear dems bragging about how moving right they get all these messages on how just listening to transphobes helped “save them from the alt-right pipeline”.
It’s so infuriating how the SJW label was so powerful then the idea of writing off the privileged is anathema to democrats. If some “white working class” guy is more concerned with keeping his privileges for being white than claiming any power as a worker, he thinks like the bourgeoisie and is a class traitor.
It helps them move to the right, which is the actual goal
It’s not compromise if we don’t have a say in it, and if we had a say in it we wouldn’t choose to marginalize ourselves
Very true
Every proletarian has been through strikes and has experienced “compromises” with the hated oppressors and exploiters, when the workers have had to return to work either without having achieved anything or else agreeing to only a partial satisfaction of their demands. Every proletarian—as a result of the conditions of the mass struggle and the acute intensification of class antagonisms he lives among—sees the difference between a compromise enforced by objective conditions (such as lack of strike funds, no outside support, starvation and exhaustion)—a compromise which in no way minimises the revolutionary devotion and readiness to carry on the struggle on the part of the workers who have agreed to such a compromise—and, on the other hand, a compromise by traitors who try to ascribe to objective causes their self-interest (strike-breakers also enter into “compromises”!), their cowardice, desire to toady to the capitalists, and readiness to yield to intimidation, sometimes to persuasion, sometimes to sops, and sometimes to flattery from the capitalists.
Lenin says you’re both right.
What text is this from? I’d like to read more! (though Lenin is kinda hard to read, so it may take me a bit)
Appropriately enough, “No Compromises?”
Thanks!
Honestly? Tagline material.
I’ve been rolling this around in my head as the discourse has gone on. I don’t know if anyone is talking about the same thing. I think ‘normal’ just sucks as a term tbh. It has inherent reactionary undertones, and can mean anything from “sit down and shut up, take the L, moderate your positions” to “don’t be antisocial, don’t jump to hostilities, assume good faith.” Fuck the former, but I think the latter is important.
Anyone trying to express the latter would be well-served by reframing it as “be cordial.” You cannot have a movement if you can’t be cordial. You will not be able to organize with people you are ready to deem an enemy without further investigation.
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To activist trying to get Obama to move on trans rights
No no no no Hey, Listen! You’re in my house! 
Not now honey, it’s pragma-prism time!And in Iran a trans person ran up to ayatollah Khomeini’s residence and asked for trans rights and got them
Can you elaborate? I know the Islamic Republic has been in some ways very permissive on trans issues but I don’t know how that was established, so this story sounds interesting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryam_Khatoon_Molkara
In 1986 or 1987,[12] she confronted Khomeini in his home in Northern Tehran. She wore a man’s suit, carried the Quran, and she tied shoes around her neck.[3][10] This was a reference to the Ashura festival, and also indicated that she was looking for refuge. Molkara was held back and beaten by security guards until Khomeini’s brother, Hassan Pasandide, intervened.[3][10] He took Molkara into his house, where she pleaded her case, yelling “I’m a woman, I’m a woman!”[3] His security guards were suspicious about her chest, as they thought she could be carrying explosives. She revealed they were her breasts, as she developed them using hormone therapy.[3] Having heard her story, Ahmad Khomeini was touched and took Molkara to speak to his father, where he asked three of his doctors about the surgery in an attempt to make a well-informed decision.[3][10] Khomeini then decided that sex reassignment surgery was needed to allow her to carry out her religious duties.[13] This resulted in Khomeini issuing a fatwa, where he determined sex reassignment surgery to not be against Islamic law.[10]
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Hahaha oh wow I forgot about this one, goddamnit this dude sucks
uhh let me be clear: uhhhh sometimes folks are actually quite, uh, evil and uhhhh they should be in power
sigh thank you dort, for helping remind me why I hate the best site on the internet
I was cringe yesterday. I am cringe today, and I’ll be cringe tomorrow. Hopefully more so.
Fuck. Normal.
Fuck throwing 5 trans kids under the bus like it’s going to save the rest of us.
I don’t know if I’m helping or hurting things sometimes
Overall, I think it was still a net positive post.
My comment may have a depressed/resigned tone, but the thanks was largely genuine, not sarcastic: I’d rather know who’s going to defend this bullshit than get stunned when suddenly I cross a line into too weird.
E: hopefully less ableist word choice
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Your solution is to abandon a marginalized class to fend for themselves because they are an electoral nuisance. You lose all right to campaign on progressive values once you do this.
Please tell me where I said that. As my other comment said, be normal especially to people on your own side.
Ignoring culture war about trans kids in sports in favor of healthcare for all including trans kids and adults =/= abandoning the marginalized. We don’t need the right to define what issues matter and we don’t need to give them any attention either.
Conservatives are the ones who are initiating the culture war battles. Democrats already ignore it for the most part. A minority of the more left-leaning Dems will engage them on it and defend trans rights. In previous eras, the battleground was over gays and blacks. There was a time when being gay was “abnormal” and Democrats would have preferred them to stay silent and closeted (while still voting Blue of course).
We don’t need the right to define what issues matter and we don’t need to give them any attention either.
Ignoring their attacks means the right fully controls the narrative over trans issues.
Ignoring in the case I’m laying out means not using their definitions to define our own cause.
They say “bathrooms are for 1 sex only” we say public accessible bathrooms for everyone is a must.
They say “trans kids shouldn’t play sports” we say abolish privatization in sports so it’s more equitable for every child to play on any team they want.
The right takes our language and bastardizes it leaving us constantly having to react, we can and should do better.
“In favor of” means abandoning. Fuck all that shit.
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You keep harping on about these so called 5 trans kids, thinking that surrendering that issue would satisfy the right. It’s just one angle of attack to dehumanize all trans people, and ultimately everyone who doesn’t conform to their standard of “normal”.
I do not thinking we should sacrifice trans children in sports to satisfy the right.
I’m saying because the right is so adament about culture wars, we get pulled into arguing against their position (even if we are right) when it’s somethig that shouldn’t be taking up all of our attention in the first place.
I only bought up trans kids in sports because another comment mentioned it as something a liberal tried to abandon and it was the first thing on my mind.
What you’re saying appears to be that Trans Kids are a sacrifice you’re willing to make to have your team win the popularity contest this year.
Healthcare for all is not something either party is willing to support under any circumstances, why are you pretending that if we just throw trans kids under the bus it’ll suddenly become possible?
Conceding to the right on trans issues actually gets us further from healthcare for all. You’re not going to find the support you want by getting center right bigots on the team.
Step 1: Treat trans women as men
Step 2: Trans people get healthcare somehow
Did I say treat women as men? What a terrible thing to project onto me.
I said we shouldn’t care about what they’re saying about kids in sports and redirect the conversation back to something else that is maybe more serious(healthcare. A genocide).
Under your same example, if step 1 was treat women as women, we still wouldn’t get healthcare. That’s the culture thing I mean where we are not getting anything but morality stickers so we shouldn’t fall for their framing tricks and keep the discussion targetted on something, public accessible bathrooms for all like mentioned. Abolishing for profit sports in general(very low priority) etc.
The core argument behind banning trans kids from sports is that trans women are men. You siding with the people making that argument is not meaningfully different from you outright agreeing with that argument. If you didn’t want to get called out for saying something terrible, you shouldn’t have said something terrible.
If you actually care about equality in sports, it should be obvious that capitalism is the problem. Imagine two kids competing in something. One was born to poor parents, so they’re malnourished due to being denied access to sufficient food. Their school is underfunded so the sports program they participate in is lower quality with lower quality facilities. They have to work after school with all the money going towards struggling to survive in poverty, so they don’t have time or energy to practice. Their gear is cheap crap that’s barely holding together. The second kid was born into wealth. They have easy access to perfect nutrition, a personal trainer, and private coaches. Their school has a top of the line sports program, and they have top of the line gear. They only have to worry about school and their sport, so they have plenty of time and energy to practice. The difference between these two kids does not allow for real competition. Why are you harassing trans kids instead of attacking this real problem?
A political idealogy which requires bigotry as its step 1 will never allow for progress. If you can’t stand up for something you deem less important, how can you possibly be trusted to stand up for something more important? If you’ve already established that you’ll side with bigots at the first inconvenience, how can you be trusted not to on issues that will receive even greater pushback?
Normal is coded language for sacrifice black people and other marginalized groups for the sake of welcoming bigoted white people who don’t want to be that reformed because they’ll lose social standing with their friend group, but they think class solidarity sounds nice when they can’t get a job.
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The problem is we live in a time and place where bigotry is normal and in order to meet them on their level you have to empower bigroty and render your cause toothless.
The person who makes a mark isn’t going to follow a dress code, they’re going to be the one who smashes the dress code and ignores the sneers they get for it. Those are the people that change the world. Those are the ones that make history. Not the ones who play along.
Yes you will be hated and punished for a time, because that’s how the status quo works, it controls through fear of social ostracism. If you’re not being loud and proud about what you believe despite that fear, then they can and will ignore you and eventually push you out. Following their rules is like turning up to a protest and not disrupting anything. Pride was, in fact, a riot and any positive victory for change the left won was through violently challenging the norms of the time.
I think what the current western left needs to come to terms with is that we can’t do this without being mercilessly dragged though the mud and violently opposed by the status quo. That there is no safe way to win this.
People who have been in organizing situations can very clearly see what this is. You can mask behind whatever you want it to be because be normal is loose language that can conform to whatever you want it to be, but this is clearly a branch from the woke 1 was really something radlib crowd and you’re just falling for it.
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I’ve talked with a lot of black people who don’t feel welcome in their union because white people make them unwelcome. So maybe focus on marginalized workers rather than bending over backwards to make reactionaries comfortable with your messaging and give them the red carpet into your org.
Woke 1 was literally the radlib position though! It was hectoring Bernie because he didn’t frame class politics as intersectional enough (Hillary: “breaking up big banks won’t end racism and sexism”).
The entire “woke 1 was crazy” thing is specifically the opposite of attacking mainstream democrats like Clinton. It’s a talking point for pro-cop racist transphobes. How does that fly over your head?
Thank you so much for wording this so clear and articulate.
I’m certain I defined what normal means in my post. Please be normal especially to peopld on your side.
We can redefine normal ourselves we don’t need to continuously let the other side steal and define language
Nah you’re whitewashing language to create a narrative. I ain’t falling for it. But it seems you do pretty easily.
We are talking about the word normal, please be serious.
Talking about taking the word normal so that it means focusing on issues impacting the people which gets more people on the working class on our side.
I know what it means. It’s about sacrificing black people in hopes white prols realize their class position and join the movement. Im not willing to sacrifice any of my marginalized comrades and you shouldn’t either or else you become them, not the other way around
I think taking nefarious views on somebody’s takes is not normal. In fact it’s weird to assume bad faith then ignore any other explanation that can expand your world view on this topic.
So be normal.
Not defending obama at all but we really do need to be normal.
who is “we”
Instead the direction should be healthcare for all including Trans adults and Trans children.
instead of what? who exactly is not advocating for that?
Normal is redirecting right wing cultural babble back on data centers, flock camera, Palestinian genocide, endless war, climate change, etc.
to you this is normal, to a lot of people these are fringe positions that they don’t want to discuss / pick a side on.
You don’t actually need two people to have a discourse anymore. You imagine some argumentative judo move that everyone could do to redirect right-wing bigotry back to “normal” topics, but the right can and will and does just talk to itself about how much it hates any difference at all and have that reported on in corporate media as the public discourse. By not confronting their bigotry directly in favor of always redirecting to something else you allow it to fester and make it easier for them to set terms of argument regarding whatever marginalized group whose specific case you’ve folded into ‘everyone’.
Good point. They’re able to generate fodder out of thin air without even having a targeted person theyre talking about. That’s why we say “thats not real/a thing but ___ is”
I feel we keep falling in their trap when the right has nothing to offer but discourse. This is a layup for our side
They’re never going to consider being a leftist normal until leftists are in power for a while and it becomes the status quo. Speaking of flock cameras, CCTV and privacy concerns involving smart phones and the internet were brought to attention. You know what the response was? “It’s normal now, every company does it.” and “If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.”
In other words “Just be normal
”Although I think I might be talking about something different than some of you when I say normal. I agree that there are times where assuming bad faith is probably not a good idea.
Although I will ask the people defending being normal: Did this tactic from Obama and Hillary even work? Did appealing to normal voters get them the win?
i decided to not risk doing sports until cultural tides change because it might flare up on me and result in me being socially assassinated or fired if some transphobe really wants to try. this is mostly irrational but there are effects of just ignoring the flooding the zone the right is doing.
